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TIS ME AGAIN !!!!!


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#1 Matthew Buick

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 05:01 PM

I have decided to start my Cinematography career on Super 8, Bauer 709XL to be exact, and I want to shoot it on Super Wide, how will I achieve this, and does it make any difference in terms of resolution, or easier to do, on Super Duper 8 ?
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#2 Kevin Masuda

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 05:46 PM

That depends, is this going direct to mini dv?


Kev
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#3 Matthew Buick

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 06:23 PM

No, straight to DVD, so I can watch it, I've no need to do Special Effects just yet.

Edited by Matthew Buick, 19 August 2006 - 06:24 PM.

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#4 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 10:04 PM

I have decided to start my Cinematography career on Super 8, Bauer 709XL to be exact, and I want to shoot it on Super Wide, how will I achieve this, and does it make any difference in terms of resolution, or easier to do, on Super Duper 8 ?



When you said Super wide, I assume you meant Super-8???


No, straight to DVD, so I can watch it, I've no need to do Special Effects just yet.


I would never transfer film only to DVD because it's really not an editing format so unless you know for sure that you will never require the original footage for editing of any kind, it's actually better to transfer film to some type of quality tape format such as betacam sp, mini-dv, dv-cam, digital-8, or even digital vhs and then have a dvd made from that.
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#5 Matthew Buick

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 08:24 AM

No I meant Super Wide 2:35:1, I think it is.

Everyone thinks I'm so thick. <_< <_< <_< <_< <_<

And by the way I dont think I need to Edit just yet, Ijust need to shoot, shoot, shoot.

Edited by Matthew Buick, 20 August 2006 - 08:26 AM.

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#6 chris evans

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:01 AM

I don't think you'll be able to achieve anything that wide on a Super8. Not with out adapters anyways. The film gate of a Super8 camera is 1.33:1. However Pro8mm makes a MAX-8 gate that is 1.58:1. There are also other companies(or people) out there who make wider gates as well. You need to do a serious internet search to find them.
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#7 Mark Dunn

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:16 AM

A 2x anamorphic lens will give you 2.66:1; 2.35:1 is the original 'Scope ratio to allow for the soundtrack. There are probably plenty of 'Scope lenses on ebay, ut you need to check they cover your lens, and there's often some cut-off at the wide end of the zoom.
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#8 John Pytlak RIP

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:01 AM

For someone "starting out", why not use the formats that are well established and standardized? Going with specialized or "niche" formats will just limit your choices of equipment, labs, and transfer houses that can accomodate those formats.

A truly widescreen format like 35mm anamorphic 2.39:1 looks best on a theatre screen, as even on HD television, it will need some degree of letterboxing.

More and more, television display is evolving to 16:9 aspect ratio, whether it be SD or HD. If the 4:3 aspect ratio of Super-8 or Regular-16 is too "old school" in your opinion to learn with, Super-16 or a cropped regular format will let you explore composing for the 16:9 ratio. If your masterpiece ends up being blown up for 35mm theatre display, the 1.85:1 aspect ratio is available in almost every theatre.
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#9 Gianni Raineri

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:25 AM

I'm strictly amateur... playing around and experimenting. Follow John's direction if you wish to go the professional way. As a student and willing to experiment, unless you plan to put this into a wedding filming package business or dramitic or documentary, or corporate video... ignore standards and have fun with learning about this filmming media.. it's stictly amateur rules for playing with the kit. When you get serious and go 16 or 35mm, either purchase the Russian optic kit, or rent the real stuff spending your producers money....

You could go Anamorphic but with that big lens on that nice camera, you will need a great big Anamorphic Lens maybe costing a few hundred or thousands... I think you may be restricted to the longer zoom settings, like short telephoto with the camera you mentioned. Maybe instead of wide screen use a simple video lens wide angle adaptor?...I've got a few anamorphics on Ebay for £40ish... You won't need to file your camera gate, also known as "super duper 8"... from http://www.friendlyfirefilms.ca/
I've got some tiny Hypergonar French anamorphic lenses that work with P1 Single 8 cameras from Fujica. They may work with other Super 8 cameras, these lenses work with the smaller cameras, easier and lighter and take advantage of the smaller size of this small format, super 8. The pixs that follow are on the filmshooting.com image galleries.

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I've seen a Chinon Pocket 8 that came with Anamorphic lenses again a tiny kit. http://super8wiki.co...Chinon_Pocket-8

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My next goal is to fix an 16mm Anamorphic projection lens onto a Russian Zenit Quartz 1x8S-2 or 1x8S-1, minus it's zoom lens which screws out. Take off that zoom and it's a nice 15mm (or so) prime perfect for an anamorphic infront, and econmical too.

http://super8wiki.co...it_Quarz_1x8S-2

Have you ever tried shooting maybe a still or video camera with an anamorphic? Super 8 fittings (Do It Yourself) can be done with projector lenses.... Somebody over on filmshooting.com just offered his anamorphic up for sale.....

You ought to get an Anamorphic and try it out on any cheapo $10 super 8 like a Kodak M2 or M4, or one of the other simple prime lens cameras (avoid most other older Kodak Super 8's). Make your own view finder and bracket or Gaffer tape the lens onto the body of the camera and shoot some tests.

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The 16mm projector Anamorphics work ok. Important to note that you'll need to use it in on both the shootin and in the telecine projection too. There may be some letter boxing for the Mini DV bit... and you'll need to figure out some workflow maybe telecine it with a 16:9 camcorder and unsqueeze it during data processing... I use quicktime pro for conversions, and change the X:Y dimensions during export. Something like (sorry, estimates only, I'm terrible with numbers and I just choose what looks or feels right..) original movie file is 320x240 then export to 320x120 or 480x240...... Then you'll get wide screen. This would be for web casting the movie... maybe on google video. Larger dimensions for data projectors or close to 2000 x 1000 (1920 x1020) for HD video if you can telecine it with such resolution...

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Here again a filmshooting com home theatre amateur: http://www.filmshoot...ipment/Image044

I've got a Godzilla Super 8 film that's in Widescreen. Looks like normal film frames just holding the strip to the light. When projecting it normal, it looks a bit odd, but with the anamorphic lens placed and aligned perfectly in front of the projector lens, it's like two or three times wider.. really cool, and Mothra actually frightens my 5 year old.



Gianni B)
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#10 Daniel Stigler

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:57 AM

And by the way I dont think I need to Edit just yet, Ijust need to shoot, shoot, shoot.



Get into editing soon as you will have to learn to choose framing and camera movement to shoot stuff that actually can be cut nicely.
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#11 Matthew Buick

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 03:01 PM

I can also add the Bauer 715XL, I just want 16:9, ok.
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#12 Gianni Raineri

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 03:08 PM

You can forget my previous post :P and just crop the 8mm frame during telecine to a 16:9 camcorder.

Note that 16:9 mode camcorders "letter box" (crop) the video ccd frame. This way you'll be cutting (vertical)resolution twice, once chopping the top and bottom off the film frame, and once again in the video. Don't know which consumer camcorders use full frame during 16:9 mode. Anamorphic keeps the vertical resolution, and stretches or expands the horzontal.

Gianni

... I just want 16:9, ok.


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#13 Douglas Hunter

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 03:45 PM

Getting wide screen in super 8 is difficult and can be expensive if you want to alter your camera's gate and then you will only have 1 or 2 places you can telecine you footage since wide screen super 8 telecine are rare. The easier solution is to put 16:9 markings on your eyepeice and then matte your footage in post. You can add your markings in a low tec manner using tape. It won't be exact but via trial and error you can come close.


But I have to admit that your series of posts does not make that much sense to me, you want to shoot wide screen but you only want to telecine to DVD and not edit? Just curious but if you are not shooting a specific project why does aspect ratio matter? What are you trying to do/ figure out / learn?
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#14 Matthew Buick

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:48 PM

Well, I guess it doesn't matter too much, can I buy a Mini DV tape reader to hook up to the PC ?
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#15 Douglas Hunter

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:47 PM

Well, I guess it doesn't matter too much, can I buy a Mini DV tape reader to hook up to the PC ?


Yes you can by a miniDV deck with a firewire in/out for your computer if you have the editing softwear that can interface with it, either FCP, avid etc. But who were you asking and what doesn't matter?

Also note that Gianni's the reply above concerning cropping your footage twice is not accurate. it all depends on the specific workflow you use to achieve your 16:9. Not all 16:9 camcorders do what Gianni suggests, the XL2 is 16:9 native for example. Really the most simple way to get 16:9 out of Super 8 is have a camera tech etch 16:9 lines on the ground glass of your camera then do a full frame telecine and add a 16:9 matte in post. For sure a camera tech will ask if you are sane since they probably never got a request to do this to a super 8 camera in their lives anyway . . .You should probably forget my comment in the above post about doing it yourself since its fairly challenging to do it right, and you might mess up your camera. This does mean that you are using far less of the available super 8 frame, but I don't think it should worry you at this point.

The other big question is how much money do you want to spend?

used DV deck in good condition that will last a while: $700 - $1000
FCP w/ student discount: $499 (I think)
camera tech to work on your camera: $500 - $1000+ (including cleaning, lube, and 16:9 marks)
Good quality telecine to DV: supervised session $235 - $375 per hour

But that's if you want to do it right.
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#16 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 01:22 AM

More and more, television display is evolving to 16:9 aspect ratio, whether it be SD or HD.


I would question the word "evolving".
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#17 David W Scott

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 09:40 AM

Well, I guess it doesn't matter too much, can I buy a Mini DV tape reader to hook up to the PC ?


Cheapest way to do that is with a MiniDV camcorder, with a firewire cable. My Dad has bought a couple of good, used MiniDV camcorders at flea markets: one for $40 US, another for $60. I see new-refurbed MiniDV cams for $200 all the time. They work great as playback and record decks. Just make sure you get a camera with firewire (also known as iLink, DV, IEEE1394 -- depending on what the camera manufacturer called it.)

Learning to cut is very valuable. The skills translate to ANY editing software or format.

If you've got a Mac that's newer than 7 years old, then you've got firewire and iMovie. It's really all you need to learn the aesthetics of editing. You don't need Final Cut Pro and a kick-ass PowerMac to learn how to cut.

If you've got a PC that's 700mhz+ then stick a firewire card in it, and use Windows Movie Maker. Total cost: $20.

10 years ago, the equipment to make even a rudimentary video edit was MEGABUCKS. Now it's basically free with most computers. :blink:
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#18 Matthew Buick

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Posted 22 August 2006 - 10:59 AM

Thanks very much.
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