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Did I get a good deal??!!


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#1 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:31 PM

So, I recently decided to step away from my Bolex and K3 and upgrade to a nicer camera. I ran into a friend of a friend and he had one he wanted to get rid of so I checked it out and decided to buy it on spot. He had a couple other people interested and I swooped in and made an impulse buy. Now I'm the proud owner of an Arri 16 st. Here are some of my questions:
1) the serial number says "ST NS 15191" Is this an Arri ST and how old is it?
2)It came with three lenses 1. a schneider-Krueznach Xenon 16mm
2. a Taylor-Hobson Kinetal 25mm
3. a schneider-kruexnach xenon 50mm
are these any good or should I invest in a anguinex zoom lens?
3) It came with a Variable speed motor and a four pin cable that looks like it turns into a european plug. So, I need a battery belt or something to make this puppy purr...any suggestions on specific battery belts or power supplies? what do all you arri guys use?
4) Where can i find a magazine so I can get some 400'ers on this bad boy?

It also has a nice flight case, a lens hood and a couple filters. All in all I ended up handing the guy $600, which sounded like a sweet deal, he said he knew it was worth a lot more, but it was the end of his era and he wanted to pass it on to a film student, as it was passed onto him for the same price. I guess at that price I should pay to have it overhauled...any suggestions for places or ballpark figures of how much it will cost?

thanks gentleman,
kirk
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 05:49 PM

Congratulations Kirk,

If the camera and lenses are in decent shape, $600 was a very good deal. I invite you to check out the www.Arri16S.com web site for lots of information on the camera.

1) With that serial number I would say the camera was made in the mid to late 1960's. If it has one steel bayonet socket in the three socket turret, then it is an Arriflex 16S/B. If it has all three aluminum sockets, then it is an Arriflex 16S (It seems like the St nomenclature was for the cameras sold in Europe).

2) Those lenses might be great and they might not be so good, unfortunately it all depends on the individual lenses. The Schneider 16mm is not the sharpest lens available for the Arri 16S, but it is probably okay. The Taylor Hobson (Cooke) Kinetal 25mm is my second favorite lens for the camera. I love the images I get out of mine and think it is far superior to the Schneider 25mm, even though it is a tad slower. And finally, I have had good luck with the Schneider 50mm, and again, depending how that particular lens was treated, it may be very nice or it may have issues. Best to do a film test with all three lenses and see what you have.

3) If you could post a picture or the plug, it would be easier to tell you what you have. Many Arri 16S cameras have been fitted with a four pin XLR, but I am not sure I would describe that as a European plug. Bescor has 12 volt battery belts that are pretty popular.

4) Magazines pop up all the time on eBay, so look a few over and try to get one that is not in too beat up shape, and remember to get a torque motor with it. If you are running the camera off a 12 volt battery, you will need to get the torque motor converted to 12 volts so as not to burn it up.

5) As far as getting the camera overhauled, we can definitely do that for you. If you visit the web site you will see a page on camera service. We will evaluate the camera and give you an estimate for no charge, then you can decide if you want to have the work done or not.

Hope that answers some of your questions,
-Tim
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#3 Hans Engstrom

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 10:22 PM

Tim gave good answers to your questions, just wanted to congratulate you on a doing a very good deal! If the camera is in good condition it will serve you well many years to come. Amazing that a 16mm Arri with lenses can be found so cheap.
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#4 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:03 PM

So, the Camera has a 4 pin XLR input on the side of the camera, and it came with a 4 pin XLR plug to a banana plug. What kind of battery belt do I need to get? Does the camera run on 8 or 12 volts? I heard that most have take 8 volt, but some are marked for 12.....I believe mine is a basic 8, I just need to get some power, thanks for all your help.
Kirk
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#5 David Sweetman

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 07:20 PM

$600? $600?! That's unheard of! You got a killer deal, assuming it runs well.
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 26 August 2006 - 10:49 PM

So, the Camera has a 4 pin XLR input on the side of the camera, and it came with a 4 pin XLR plug to a banana plug. What kind of battery belt do I need to get? Does the camera run on 8 or 12 volts? I heard that most have take 8 volt, but some are marked for 12.....I believe mine is a basic 8, I just need to get some power, thanks for all your help.
Kirk


If you have a variable speed motor you can run the camera on 8 or 12 volts. If you get a magazine and torque motor, you need to run the torque motor on 8 volts or else have it modified to run on 12 volts.

8 volt battery belts are getting tough to come by so many folks are using twelve volt belts. Bescor makes a nice one.

-Tim
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#7 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 12:16 AM

Would a Bescor "SLM-5XLRATM" be a good choice for bettery belt?
thanks,
kirk
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#8 Hans Engstrom

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 02:00 AM

If you´re on a tight budget why not make some block batteries? You can buy sealed lead/acid cells that will fit in "fanny" pouches and make your own batterybelt for a fraction of the cost you´d have to pay for a Bescor.
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#9 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:04 AM

If you´re on a tight budget why not make some block batteries? You can buy sealed lead/acid cells that will fit in "fanny" pouches and make your own batterybelt for a fraction of the cost you´d have to pay for a Bescor.


I've also used a couple of Radio Shack 7.2 volt RC car batteries wired in parallel, stuffed in a fanny pack. They each come with their own charger and are about $24 a piece. Fully charged they put out 7.4 volts which runs the variable speed motor with no problems.

-Tim
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#10 Jan Weis

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 06:25 AM

Does anybody know the voltage required to run a constant speed motor?
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#11 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 09:33 AM

Does anybody know the voltage required to run a constant speed motor?


Nominally it is 8 volts, but I have run a constant speed motor on the Radio Shack 7.2 volt batteries I talked about above and it worked fine.

DO NOT RUN 12 VOLTS THROUGH THE CONSTANT SPEED MOTOR! You will burn it up.

-Tim
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#12 Sam Wells

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 09:44 AM

I've also used a couple of Radio Shack 7.2 volt RC car batteries wired in parallel, stuffed in a fanny pack. They each come with their own charger and are about $24 a piece. Fully charged they put out 7.4 volts which runs the variable speed motor with no problems.

-Tim


Interesting.... how fast do they charge BTW ?

-Sam
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#13 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 11:11 AM

Interesting.... how fast do they charge BTW ?

-Sam


Can take up to 5 hours. They are 2000mAh Ni-Cad batteries. If you aren't running the torque motor, i.e. you are just using 100 ft internal loads, the charge lasts for quite a long time.

-Tim

Radio Shack Part Number 23-322
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#14 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 05:54 PM

THe Radio shack batteries sound like they'll work well until I sell My Bolex and K3 and buy Torgue Magazine and 8 volt battery belt. DO I need to wire two packs together or can I use one to power the camera?

I was planning on buying two and having one to shoot with and one back up. Has anyone done this before? How long will the batteries shoot with 100' internal spools?

So, I was going to wire the batteries to a female banana plug, then to my cable which is a male banana plug to 4 pin XLR to my camera. Sound like a good plan? Anyone see any kinks? If not I'm off to Radio Shack in the morning.

PS. If anyone wants a K3 I'm selling two, one M42 and one bayonet, for $175 each plus shipping...also a Rex 2 reflex bolex for $300 plus shipping, or Bay Area pickup...I need a magazine and battery belt..

Kirk
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#15 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:10 PM

Kirk,

I'd forget the banana plug all together and wire the battery to a 4-pin XLR.

Without a picture I am not sure what you mean by banana plug, but it may be the original Arriflex 16S power cord that plugs into the camera right next to where the motor mounts. If that is the case, then the XLR on the other end should be the same as the XLR on the camera body and they will not plug into each other.

-Tim
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#16 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:36 PM

Kirk,

I'd forget the banana plug all together and wire the battery to a 4-pin XLR.

Without a picture I am not sure what you mean by banana plug, but it may be the original Arriflex 16S power cord that plugs into the camera right next to where the motor mounts. If that is the case, then the XLR on the other end should be the same as the XLR on the camera body and they will not plug into each other.

-Tim


I guess that does make more sense that having three different cable connections. My specific plug has 4 pin XLR to a "banana Plug" check out ~~~> http://en.wikipedia....iki/Banana_plug

the end looks just like the top picture...I'm just wondering what kind of battery pack this camera was usually plugged into..

thanks for all your help Tim.
kirk
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#17 Tim Carroll

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Posted 27 August 2006 - 10:48 PM

Kirk,

Does your banana plug have a plus sign molded into the rubber that holds the two metal prongs? IF so, it is probably one of the original Arriflex 16S power cords that someone has cut the other end off and put on a 4-pin XLR.

There were many different battery types over the years the camera was made. I should do a page on the web site showing all the different battery plug types.

-Tim
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#18 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 12:25 AM

I'll check whether it has a + sign on it tonight....That would be really helpful to have more battery and electronic information on your website, it was the only thing I'm really frustrated on and can't seem to find any other information on google or this forum past topics....So, If i get the radio shack batteries what will I wire the four pins to? I wish I could find a wiring diagram for the battery system of this camera online, but I have searched this whole week and not really found anything...
For the 4 pin XLR, one pin is +, one pin is -, one is ground and the fourth is ____???

Sweet Jeopardy question.....I pick lost in 1960's wiring for $600.

Kirk
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