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best primes to use to get a nice spherical lense flare


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#1 Tomas Koolhaas

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 09:06 PM

Hi,
I am ging t shoot a music video and intend to flare the lense quite a bit, I am not tryng to recreate anamorphic flares, I just want the nicest spherical flare patterns i can get, I know the angle and type of light hitting the lense mostly determines the type of flare, but I have noticed using Zeiss superspeeds that is is almost impossible to get the kind of flare I am after, and the director would like to use them.
I have got nice flares using S4's what does everyone reckomend???
Cheers.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 August 2006 - 09:53 PM

Older prime lenses with uncoated elements, or older zooms will flare more. The old Mk. II Ultra-Speeds at Panavision flare like crazy.
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#3 Joe Taylor

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Posted 24 August 2006 - 04:10 PM

I've had problems with lens flare (good in your case) with my older Angenieux 24-250 zoom. This zoom is much older then your typical Ang. 24-250 HRs that are found in most rental houses, and can actually be bought for a song on ebay. (Might be hard to find one to rent). Overall quality is very nice, images actually intercut well with Zeiss standards, plus you get that great lens flare.
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#4 Tony Brown

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Posted 28 August 2006 - 12:17 PM

I have got nice flares using S4's what does everyone reckomend???


Never managed that with S4's..... and I've tried and tried...... :blink:
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#5 stephen defilippi

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 05:23 PM

Older prime lenses with uncoated elements, or older zooms will flare more. The old Mk. II Ultra-Speeds at Panavision flare like crazy.



David, im also planning to add some flare to an ending sequence in a large field, the subject is "walking into the sunset" with her dog, and im wondering, should I use filters or just take everything off? Does filtering, like ND & PL effect the flare?

thanks
stephen
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:20 PM

Does filtering, like ND & PL effect the flare?


Yes, but not in an interesting way, more just veiling problems and double-reflections, not rings and circles and whatnot.

I'd go for an old zoom, like an old 25-250mm. Lots of rings, especially as you zoom in or out of the sun.
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#7 Jake Braver

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 07:53 PM

I am trying to think of films that use flares as a style.The first thing that comes to mind is Die Hard. What else am I missing?

jake
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#8 Max Jacoby

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:33 AM

Flares depend on what kind of lights that you use to achieve them. Most lenses flare very nicely when you have a strong light aimed straight at them (in shot), like headlights, etc... You get a pinkish-redish flare in most cases. I find Primos very nice in that aspect for instance.

Obviously the one lenses you shouldn't use are the Master Primes. You actually get free 235 from Arri if you manage to get a flare, not to mention that the whole Zeiss optics department will be phoning you up, aksing how you did it ;)
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#9 Freya Black

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 08:20 AM

I am trying to think of films that use flares as a style.The first thing that comes to mind is Die Hard. What else am I missing?

jake


Blade runner seems like an obvious example tho I suspect there is a lot of cgi flaring! ;)

I actually shot something once in anamorphic dv and someone saw it and was going "Wow thats amazing, it reminds me of blade runner!" I was very shocked as I was mostly concerned with the awful looking video noise at the time! Really Riddley scott would have turned in his grave. Oh hang on he isn't dead is he??...

Anyway that was a really cheap anamorphic cine attachment. Flared like a crazy thing. It fact it made me decide that I must use a matte box next time! ;)

love

Freya
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#10 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 18 June 2007 - 02:11 PM

Blade runner seems like an obvious example tho I suspect there is a lot of cgi flaring! ;)

I actually shot something once in anamorphic dv and someone saw it and was going "Wow thats amazing, it reminds me of blade runner!" I was very shocked as I was mostly concerned with the awful looking video noise at the time! Really Riddley scott would have turned in his grave. Oh hang on he isn't dead is he??...

Anyway that was a really cheap anamorphic cine attachment. Flared like a crazy thing. It fact it made me decide that I must use a matte box next time! ;)


'Blade Runner' was pre CGI. Most of it was shot 35mm anamorphic with the effects in 65mm sherical.
Most of the flares are from the anamorphics. The FX units probably bent over backwards to get flares.
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#11 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 08:05 AM

I just got home from a long day operating on a music video (yes, it's 6AM (my call was 12:30PM)) and we used a streak filter all day (and night) with Primo's. The streak filter was a first for me, but it seemed to work quite well. If you want horizontal flares you position the streaks vertically, and vice versa. On my monitor, and the directors monitor, the flares looked great. I'm interested to see how they really look on film. It appeared as if the DP had used that filter before and it had done it's job. So I guess there's a solution for creating flares now. I'm not sure how long that filter has been around, but it's a nice solution if that's what you're looking for. I'll try to remember to post a link to the video when it's finished. Hopefully I'll remember this thread.
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#12 Tony Brown

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 09:30 AM

Streak filters have been around for while - originally as two point stars, but they do give an anamorphic type flare which the poster said he didn't want
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#13 John Holland

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Posted 19 June 2007 - 10:22 AM

Connie Hall way back in 1965 with "Cool Hand Luke " anamorphic Panavision , wonderful , brave at that time , need more of that type of cinematography now instead of no grain ,no flare boring stuff we get all the time on big movies .
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#14 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 12:20 PM

Streak filters have been around for while - originally as two point stars, but they do give an anamorphic type flare which the poster said he didn't want

Oops. I guess my long day affected my ability to read properly.
What did the flare look like from the two point star filter? Was it also a horizontal flare?
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#15 Chris Keth

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 12:26 PM

The Cooke series 2 primes (ca. 1964) I used to use in school flared beautifully.
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#16 Tony Brown

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 12:30 PM

Oops. I guess my long day affected my ability to read properly.
What did the flare look like from the two point star filter? Was it also a horizontal flare?


If inserted vertically yes. Like the original panchro diffusers, I've been trying to find 2 point stars for several years......
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#17 Stephen Williams

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 12:46 PM

The Cooke series 2 primes (ca. 1964) I used to use in school flared beautifully.


Hi Chris,

Possibly from the 1940's!

http://www.cookeopti...sf/history/1940

Stephen
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#18 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 12:58 PM

Possibly from the 1940's!

http://www.cookeopti...sf/history/1940


Sounds arrogant to contradict the Cooke site, but if one actually goes through old literature like bound volumes of the SMPTE journal and ASC handbooks, the Series II Speed Panchros came out in the 50s at the same time the Kinetals were intrduced.
In the 40s the "series one" speed panchros became availiable with Filmo-Coating. Bell&Howell was the US distributer during the 30s, 40s & early 50s.
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#19 Chris Keth

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Posted 20 June 2007 - 12:58 PM

Hi Chris,

Possibly from the 1940's!

http://www.cookeopti...sf/history/1940

Stephen


That's older than I thought. The set I used had been rehoused at least once and was pretty tricky to even find out that it was a series 2. They all hovered around T2.2 or 2.3. I took the equipment manager's word for a manufacture date in 1964; as far as I could tell, they lost their serial numbers long ago.

Edited by Chris Keth, 20 June 2007 - 12:59 PM.

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#20 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 21 June 2007 - 02:35 PM

Possibly from the 1940's!

http://www.cookeopti...sf/history/1940


Lets examine the text in this link:

The Series II Cooke Speed Panchros for cinematography were distributed exclusively through Bell & Howell in London and Chicago. The Series II lenses were developed for higher definition in wide screen presentations and to cover standard format 0.723 x 0.980 inches. By 1945 they came in focal lengths: 18, 25, 32, 40, 50 and 75mm. The 100mm, f/2.5 Deep Field Panchro was released in 1946.

"higher definition in wide screen presentations" CinemaScope came out in 1953, not 1943. 1.85/1, 1.75/1 & 1.66/1 came out at the same time to compete with it. & the original anamorphics were attachments.

An an 18mm inverse telephoto lens in the early 40s?
Why wasn't it used on 'Citizen Kane'? Maybe it was shot 10 years too soon.
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