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All the "35" lense options for the HVX200


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#1 Mark Allen

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 05:41 PM

I'm going to be shooting an indie feature and it seems that the HVX would be the right candidate for our current budget. But I want to get that "35 DOF."

Can anyone tell me all the options for lenses that could be purchased or rented in Los Angeles in November?

(meaning something which will be in release by then.)

So far I have:

Movietube
Sony Redrock Micro M2


Next, and less important, question would be are either of these feasible for use with a single operator?

Thank you!
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#2 Allen Achterberg

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 12:46 AM

I'm going to be shooting an indie feature and it seems that the HVX would be the right candidate for our current budget. But I want to get that "35 DOF."

Can anyone tell me all the options for lenses that could be purchased or rented in Los Angeles in November?

(meaning something which will be in release by then.)

So far I have:

Movietube
Sony Redrock Micro M2
Next, and less important, question would be are either of these feasible for use with a single operator?

Thank you!


There are three different adatpors.

The Movie Tube
P+S Technik's Mini35
and the indie redrock Micro M2

With a single operator? Depends on how talented and experienced you are. Although not recommended. It is difficult to pull focus on these units, you are usually wide open making it extremely tough for tight and even sometimes medium shots.

Lenses vary. It really depends on the lens mount with your adapter. Redrocks M2 makes it affordable for ultra low budget films to be shot with the use of Nikon Lenses which can be purchased on Ebay. Although lens marks will not exist on these lenses, they can be remarked with tape.

You can also have a PL mount with the M2. The Movie Tube and the P+S Technik mount will be PL which is great for the use of real cine lenses and accessories. These two adaptors are far more superior for many reasons, and the movie tube excells with no moving ground glass so mistakes will not be made. Both the M2 and P+S adapter have spinning ground glass to remove the grain which can lead to misakes especially on indie run and gun shooting styles. But lens and accessory rentals will add up, not a good idea for ultra low budget shows.

It really depends on what adapter you have, your budget, and the look you want.

I own an HVX200 package, with cards sticks and the M2 adapter along with Nikon lenses. It's great. Although since the M2 flips the image unlike the more expensive adapters you either have to rent an onboard monitor and turn it upside down, or do as I did and surgically flip the image by voiding the warranty. Not recommended.

if you like, you may rent my HVX package for your flick if budget is a big issue.

my 2 cents, and good luck
Allen
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#3 Michael Nash

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 01:30 AM

But I want to get that "35 DOF."

Next, and less important, question would be are either of these feasible for use with a single operator?


Well, the whole point of using a 35mm lens adapter is to get a shallower depth of field; ergo more critical that your focus be accurate. If you've got enough depth of field (high enough stop) that you don't need as many focus pulls, then you're not really getting the advantage of the adapter. Good focus pulling with these adapters is just as relevant as if there was 35mm film in the gate instead of a chip.

For an entire feature with one of these setups you're going to want an assistant to at least help change lenses, batteries, deal with P2 cards and so on.
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#4 Mark Allen

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 03:32 PM

Interesting... found a few more:

http://www.cinevate....x.php?page=demo - this one seems intriguing.

http://www.sgpro.co....geframeset.html

not sure what happened to www.cinemek.com though - the G35 was all a buzz and then nothin'. No forums, I'm on the mailing list and have heard nothing.
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#5 Dennis Wood

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 10:25 PM

Mark, thanks for posting the link (it came up in our webstats....)

The Brevis which is a "moving" adapter with interchangeable diffusers, and internal rechargeable power. Our PL mount will be released in about two weeks to our collection of interchangeable lens mounts. Bob Gundu has done some great work with the Brevis and HVX:

http://10framehandle...acksLaneway.mov

and recently, this:

http://10framehandle...nuteTooLong.mov

I'll be happy to answer any questions :-)

Edited by Dennis Wood, 03 September 2006 - 10:29 PM.

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#6 Mark Allen

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 11:48 PM

I'll be happy to answer any questions :-)


Welcome to Cinematography.com. Just so you know all the Videos shot by you on your site are broken links.

I realize that the links you just sent were with an HVX, but is there anything technically lost when using the 82-72 step down ring?

Do you feel, personally, that any one particular camera combined with your adapter producer the most superior pictures? (Just curious on that one.)
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#7 Dennis Wood

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 01:21 AM

Welcome to Cinematography.com. Just so you know all the Videos shot by you on your site are broken links.

I realize that the links you just sent were with an HVX, but is there anything technically lost when using the 82-72 step down ring?

Do you feel, personally, that any one particular camera combined with your adapter producer the most superior pictures? (Just curious on that one.)



Mark, thanks for the tip on the demo clips. I've fixed the links. Someday I'll figure out PHP....

The HVX setup involve the 82-72 step down ring, then a custom made 72mm achromat, the adapter, and whatever 35mm lens you're using. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, but as Bob's footage demonstrates, it's not :-) I don't believe any adapter can claim to offer 0 loss in resolution, but the Brevis is being recognized as being one of the sharpest and lowest light losers out there.

I've found that if a user can get backfocus correct, optimal f stop settings (after hopefully testing their 35mm lenses), and get correct exposure, the HVX is my favourite so far. The camera's focus assist, great control layout, dampening mass, and outstanding image make it a great match for the adapter. Bob Gundu demonstrates a very good understanding of the camera, the adapter, and his collection of Nikon lenses.

Edited by Dennis Wood, 04 September 2006 - 01:24 AM.

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#8 Dan Diaconu

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 09:36 AM

I don't believe any adapter can claim to offer 0 loss in resolution, but the Brevis is being recognized as being one of the sharpest and lowest light losers out there.

Now, now... Dennis... a little modesty might suit you better...
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#9 Mark Allen

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 02:04 PM

We actually ended up doing a shoot with the M2 and nikon lenses (because that was the only system I could find which was rentable for the days we were shooting) and I have to say the light loss and focus softening really turned me off from the whole 35mm adapter concept. Before I ever used one in a professional realm again I woud really have to see a different system working better in action.
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#10 Dan Diaconu

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Posted 25 September 2006 - 03:15 PM

We actually ended up doing a shoot with the M2 and nikon lenses (because that was the only system I could find which was rentable for the days we were shooting) and I have to say the light loss and focus softening really turned me off from the whole 35mm adapter concept.


Well... is like saying: I met and talked to a "fill-in a nationality" (or religion) and they are all "fill-in" (bad, stupid, corrupt, etc)
I wouldn't pass on this kind of judgement based on one only (less-than-satisfying) experience, (but I don't blame you either). My2c.
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#11 Dennis Wood

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 12:06 AM

Mark, sorry to hear things didn't go great for you. 35mm adapters are not necessarily the easiest way to shoot, but certainly having the right achromat, design, and simple adjustment helps a lot. Some of those Nikons are notorious for softness with fully opened apertures too...

Dan, welcome back. You're always there to keep me honest :-)
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#12 Dan Diaconu

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:52 AM

Dan, welcome back. You're always there to keep me honest :-)


Thanks Dennis, nice to be back. No... you don't need me for that! You ARE honest! ("modesty" is something I can't teach you for I don't know it myself! :D ) Back to topic: not all image converters are created equal, Brevis apears to be a very good unit (I did not see or use one) and yes, they ALL require "old school" working procedure.
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#13 Luc Meisel

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 05:05 PM

hey allen what does it cost to rent your gear?

And dont you need a HD cine lense so that you dont lose sharpness?
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#14 Pablo Villegas

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 08:04 PM

I'm going to be shooting an indie feature and it seems that the HVX would be the right candidate for our current budget. But I want to get that "35 DOF."

Can anyone tell me all the options for lenses that could be purchased or rented in Los Angeles in November?

(meaning something which will be in release by then.)

So far I have:

Movietube
Sony Redrock Micro M2
Next, and less important, question would be are either of these feasible for use with a single operator?

Thank you!



The Movietube is great, but it does offers some limitations, firts it loses a lot of light! like 2 stop plus what the lens is losing. So the HVX I understand is like a 640 ISO, so you'll be shooting wiht the adpater at 125 ISO or less! if your script involves night exteriors, you'll need a lot of light! It weights a lot and add the Camera a PL lens rods and a Mattebox and you have a very heavy setup, so you'll need a big tripoid along with it's head, I've used the Cartoni C40.
Where I live (Mexico city) you can only rent the Movietube Lt and that takes handheld shots away from the project, even if you manage to hand held that heavy setup, the operator can't frame because you need an external HD LCD. That Problem is solved with the Movietube ST, that has shoulder pads and you can fit it with a HD viewfinder for the operator.

About a single operator, well it depends, if you have rather estatic(not moving) shots, yes, one operator can frame it and pull the focus, but if you have hand held or any other moving shots, someone needs to pull the focus for those.
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#15 Mitch Gross

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 03:57 PM

All the lens adaptors eat light; the MOVIEtube just a bit more. And while it is heavier you certainly don't need a C40 head -- I've successfully used a Sachtler DV12 which is tiny. Only if you use a heavy zoom do you need a big beefy tripod.
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#16 Pablo Villegas

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 06:22 PM

All the lens adaptors eat light; the MOVIEtube just a bit more. And while it is heavier you certainly don't need a C40 head -- I've successfully used a Sachtler DV12 which is tiny. Only if you use a heavy zoom do you need a big beefy tripod.



Hi Mitch,

Well, I haven't tried any other tripod on the movietube. That's the one(C40) they gave me with the adpater. The place I rented it here(Aatomo Rentals), might be connected with Abelcine? they rent the same kind of things you do.

Regards
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#17 Mitch Gross

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 12:53 AM

They are connected in that they are customers of ours.
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#18 Cole Webley

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 11:58 PM

in my judgment the P+S technik eats up the most light...although they don't have this problem with the Pro35 Adapter...must be going through more glass on the HVX setup. If you don't have a lot of lights and you have time to play with it...i would get the M2. I have been speaking with their people and they tell me they can manufacture lens mounts on to the M2. We have a set of old canon cine lenses with the mitchell BNCR mount and they said they could machine one for that mount.

Anyways, Redrock does take a lot of time to ship and while their stuff is under warrenty you can't return anything because you decide you don't want it. PLUS you can only communicate with them through email...lame.

Best luck.
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#19 Dominic Jones

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 12:54 PM

We actually ended up doing a shoot with the M2 and nikon lenses (because that was the only system I could find which was rentable for the days we were shooting) and I have to say the light loss and focus softening really turned me off from the whole 35mm adapter concept. Before I ever used one in a professional realm again I woud really have to see a different system working better in action.

I've used an M2 on many shoots with a Z1 or XL-H1 on the back of it, and whilst light loss is certainly a problem, sharpness should not be.

I found that getting the correct setup for your camera is crucial, and it took me the best part of 2 days testing (with charts, of course!) to get a setup I was happy with - after that, plain sailing though. The other thing to mention is that there are a *lot* of seriously under-powered Nikkor primes out there - I found several lenses far too soft to shoot with on these systems (although fine for 35mm stills use), including the 105mm f2.5, 50mm f1.8, 24mm f2 and 35mm f2.8.

If you get the adapter setup properly and use the best glass available (Nikkors are fine, you've just got to pick your battles, or better yet PL mount/other cine lenses) you should be fine.

For reference, Nikkor lenses known good for 35mm adapters:
20mm f2.8
35mm f2
50mm f1.4
85mm f1.4
85mm f1.8
105mm f1.8
180mm f2.8 ED

I've used the P+S adapters (Mini and Pro) as well as the MovieTube and SGPro, and there's really very little in it between them - for my money the M2 edged it for speed and ability to stop down (all the way through the full range of the lens' iris without grain, undoable on any of the other systems), but there's really not much in it, imo...

Edited by Dominic Jones, 20 December 2006 - 12:57 PM.

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#20 Zulkifli Yusof

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 10:03 AM

For reference, Nikkor lenses known good for 35mm adapters:
20mm f2.8
35mm f2
50mm f1.4
85mm f1.4
85mm f1.8
105mm f1.8
180mm f2.8 ED


Hey,

When you state that the above lenses are good for 35mm adapters, were you testing them at their widest or you took the time to test out each of the lenses at every stop and came to a conclusion?
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