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Your opinion on my S16 post workflow


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#1 Mike Nichols

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 02:52 PM

After calling numerous labs/post houses and scouring the net for all sorts of ideas, here is the solution I have come up with:

I am shooting a S16 feature. We are running off about 40k feet of film, most likely delivering on DVD, but need the potential for a film out and/or blu-ray/HD-DVD/HDTV

Develop camera rolls and have dailies delivered on DVCAM clones (would prefer DVCPRO HD, but I have been told this is problematic) of HDCAM-SR master tapes. All dailies MOS (pretty significant savings if I sync my offline dailies in FCP with the WAVE dumps from the tascam HD-P2). Now, I have HDCAM-SR masters, that were transferred neutral and DVCAM (again, would prefer DVCPRO HD) Clones for an offline edit. The house is letting my supply stock.

Load the DVCAM footage, and perform an offline edit. Pump out an EDL and do HD Conform from my HDCAM-SR dailies in an HD suite. Digitally grade. Do a final sound mix and add VIFX shots. Master out to another HDCAM-SR and dub to D5 and Digibeta for SD/HD delivery.

Sound good?
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#2 Thomas Worth

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 05:29 PM

Develop camera rolls and have dailies delivered on DVCAM clones (would prefer DVCPRO HD, but I have been told this is problematic) of HDCAM-SR master tapes.

It seems to me that having everything telecine'd to HD is unnecessary and will drive up the cost (especially on a feature). You can have the film telecine'd on an old Rank in standard def for much less money. Once you achieve a locked edit using this SD footage, you can take the EDL and the camera rolls back to the post house and do an HD transfer of only the parts of the picture that are in the final edit. This will save you some money. There's no reason to waste time / money transferring flubbed takes to HD.

Also, you would want to digitally grade after the VFX shots are inserted into the final edit. Color correction will be the last step before generating delivery versions of the movie, whether film, JPEG2000 for digital cinema or MPEG2 for Blu-ray/DVD.
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#3 Joshua Reis

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 08:53 PM

As Thomas suggested, I would hold of on transfering to HDCAM SR until you have a locked edit and have generated a EDL for selects. It will be very costly to transfer that much footage to HDCAM SR. Also, it sounds like you shot 1.78 or 1.85, so why not make anamorphic DVCAMs with slated window burns. This will help you get a bit more resolution out of DVCAM. Also, when you do go to HDCAM SR, are you going to record in linear or log color space? There are a wide variety of price/ performance options for digitally grading at HD res. ( Lustre, Final Touch, Avid DS, etc)
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#4 Thomas Worth

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 09:08 PM

Also, it sounds like you shot 1.78 or 1.85, so why not make anamorphic DVCAMs with slated window burns.

"Window burns" being both the timecode of the tape and the key numbers from the film superimposed over the footage. Typically it is superimposed outside of the 1.78/1.85 area, so you can mask it later (with letterbox) if you want to use the this footage for a video trailer or something.

If you are shooting with short ends, there may be an issue with the key numbers going in reverse. I would actually love it if someone here could clear that up, as I'm not entirely sure what the issue is.
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#5 Mike Nichols

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:54 AM

"Window burns" being both the timecode of the tape and the key numbers from the film superimposed over the footage. Typically it is superimposed outside of the 1.78/1.85 area, so you can mask it later (with letterbox) if you want to use the this footage for a video trailer or something.

If you are shooting with short ends, there may be an issue with the key numbers going in reverse. I would actually love it if someone here could clear that up, as I'm not entirely sure what the issue is.



I get what you guys are saying, but when applying real world price quotes (as I said, I have been calling lab after lab) it would only cost me an additional $5600 to have everything transferred to HDCAM-SR with DVCAM clones as opposed to just DVCAM on a rank. Factor in the cost to re-transfer from the camera rolls after a locked edit, and I think I am at a wash.
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#6 Stephen Williams

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 01:32 PM

I get what you guys are saying, but when applying real world price quotes (as I said, I have been calling lab after lab) it would only cost me an additional $5600 to have everything transferred to HDCAM-SR with DVCAM clones as opposed to just DVCAM on a rank. Factor in the cost to re-transfer from the camera rolls after a locked edit, and I think I am at a wash.


Hi,

I think you will get a better result doing the final grading from film in telecine.

Have you costed the of final grading the HDCAM SR originals?

Stephen
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#7 Mike Nichols

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 10:10 AM

Hi,

I think you will get a better result doing the final grading from film in telecine.

Have you costed the of final grading the HDCAM SR originals?

Stephen



Final grading from HDCAM-SR has NOT been included because it may never get to that point if a distrib doesn't bite or at least show interest. The intent is to use the rough cut to raise additional funding for finishing.
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#8 Thomas Worth

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 12:57 PM

Final grading from HDCAM-SR has NOT been included because it may never get to that point if a distrib doesn't bite or at least show interest. The intent is to use the rough cut to raise additional funding for finishing.

If you're not expecting to complete the film without additional money, then why would you spend what little money you have on HD telecine? If you're only going to show a rough cut, a DVD made from the DVCAM transfer would suffice. An un-color corrected movie is not going to look good, regardless of whether it's HD or not.
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#9 Mike Nichols

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 06:31 PM

If you're not expecting to complete the film without additional money, then why would you spend what little money you have on HD telecine? If you're only going to show a rough cut, a DVD made from the DVCAM transfer would suffice. An un-color corrected movie is not going to look good, regardless of whether it's HD or not.



After some deliberation, it looks like we might actually shoot on the Varicam with a Pro35 adaptor instead. With DVD as our deliverable, I think we can get the desired look with the Varicam.
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#10 Jon Kukla

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Posted 09 September 2006 - 03:48 PM

If you are shooting with short ends, there may be an issue with the key numbers going in reverse. I would actually love it if someone here could clear that up, as I'm not entirely sure what the issue is.


I believe that's a 35mm issue in the event that you theoretically pickup some short ends which were used in a magazine which was running in reverse. I don't think it is actually possible with Super 16 though, since it's single perf.
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