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Super-8 Black & White Plus-X, Too good to Believe?


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#1 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 05 September 2006 - 11:58 PM

Has anyone tried the new Super-8 Plus-X? Not only is it better than the prior Plus-X that came before, but it's also a stop and a half more sensitive! The new Plus-X is rated at 100 ASA instead of 40 ASA. With all the hubub going on about Kodachrome, Ektachrome, anti-chrome and no-chrome it's as if Kodak sneaked the new Plus-X by everyone. If Plus-X stock is as good as told to me by someone else, why didn't Kodak take a moment and rename the Plus-X stock something new and exciting?

I don't understand Kodak marketing sometimes. They try and pass off Ektachrome 64 as better version of Kodachrome 40 yet completely let slip by how incredible the BW Plus-X stock has become.

I hear it just looks incredible. I plan on shooting a cartridge for this years Flicker Attack of the Fifty Foot Reels Film Festival that Norwood Cheek has put on for the past 5 years so I guess I'll get an answer in about 6 weeks to two months from now.

Atlhough my curiousity is getting the better of me with each passing day.
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#2 Richardson Leao

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 12:28 AM

i tried recentely and I have to say, it looks like 16mm. Because I was doing the rest of the footage using old soviet film, I could not use the plus-x because it just looked too good...
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#3 Hal Smith

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 05:28 AM

Has anyone tried the new Super-8 Plus-X? Not only is it better than the prior Plus-X that came before, but it's also a stop and a half more sensitive!
Atlhough my curiousity is getting the better of me with each passing day.

It gets better! According to the Kodak website technical information, the 16mm Plus-X is the old formula - the Super-8 Plus-X has 3 times the MTF definition of 16mm Plus-X at 75 cycles/mm, it's actually sharper for the same size projected image than 16mm Plus-X.

Kodak launched the first example of a modern black and white emulsion, in Super-8, and kept it a secret?

John Pytlak, we thank you! My Nizo 4056 is on it's way, I plan to have some cheap fun. Who says shooting movie film is expensive, I'm going to wear out the Nizo running 7265 through it.

MiniDV Die, Die, Die! :P
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#4 David W Scott

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:18 AM

I agree - Plus-X is a beautiful stock. New or old.

The word that comes to mind is... velvet.

Nothing like the golfball-sized grains in Tri-X.

Shooting Tri-X is like making an impressionist movie.
Shooting Plus-X is making an Alex Colville movie.
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#5 Sam Wells

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 10:56 AM

What makes you think the S8 version of 7265 is different than the 16mm version ?

I get the exact same spec sheet. (It's not clear if the mtf graph is for Plus X or Tri X as it says "Tri X 7266" at the top and "Plus X 7265 at the bottom" so something is mislabled.

I'm not sure how you get "three times the mtf definition" - and compared to what, the older Plus X 7276 (no longer on the market).

Also I don't know where 1 1/2 stops comes from, isn't it just one (100/80 vs the previous 50/40) ?


-Sam
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#6 Hal Smith

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 11:19 AM

What makes you think the S8 version of 7265 is different than the 16mm version ?
I'm not sure how you get "three times the mtf definition" - and compared to what, the older Plus X 7276 (no longer on the market).
-Sam

I called up the 16mm Plus-X negative MTF graph last night, with the predictable confusion ensuing. :(
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#7 Sam Wells

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 11:29 AM

OK the Plus X neg was your mistake not theirs but they do need to proofread the online spec sheets sometimes... I also find their site tricky sometimes

Kodak used to send plain vanilla spec sheets on analog paper through the US Mail. Hard to believe, I know :D

-Sam
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#8 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 02:07 PM

Also I don't know where 1 1/2 stops comes from, isn't it just one (100/80 vs the previous 50/40) ?
-Sam


The Old Super-8 plus-X was rated at 40/32. So is that 1.5 stops, 1.33, or 1.25 stops less sensitive? Whichever it is it's definitely more than a full stop more sensitive.
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#9 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 02:29 PM

The Old Super-8 plus-X was rated at 40/32. So is that 1.5 stops, 1.33, or 1.25 stops less sensitive? Whichever it is it's definitely more than a full stop more sensitive.


PXR was 50/40. Which makes for an even 0ne stop increase.

http://kodak.com/US/...s/bw/7276.jhtml

Edited by Leo Anthony Vale, 06 September 2006 - 02:31 PM.

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#10 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 02:48 PM

PXR was 50/40. Which makes for an even 0ne stop increase.

http://kodak.com/US/...s/bw/7276.jhtml


I have an actual box of Super-8 Plus-X film that I referred to. 40/32 is what it says.
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#11 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 03:47 PM

I have an actual box of Super-8 Plus-X film that I referred to. 40/32 is what it says.


It's been so long since I've seen an S8 box.
Might it be 40T 32D w/85 filter?
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#12 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 04:38 PM

It's been so long since I've seen an S8 box.
Might it be 40T 32D w/85 filter?



Yes.
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#13 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 06:06 PM

It's been so long since I've seen an S8 box.
Might it be 40T 32D w/85 filter?


As its black and white film wouldn't it have been

40 - daylight,
32 - Tungsten,
and without the need of any filter
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#14 Maulubekotofa

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:22 PM

For cryin' out loud: 50D/40T - B&W films always have the Daylight set at a higher ASA than when exposed in Tungsten light...

Post a picture of the box that states 32...I am sure 32ASA is not a SMPTE valid ASA for super 8 cameras.
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#15 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 08:46 PM

For cryin' out loud: 50D/40T - B&W films always have the Daylight set at a higher ASA than when exposed in Tungsten light...

Post a picture of the box that states 32...I am sure 32ASA is not a SMPTE valid ASA for super 8 cameras.


Why exactly are you "crying out loud"?

It states 40 ASA and with a filter the super-8 camera treats it like ASA 25 but the box stastes it's actually 32 ASA.
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#16 Maulubekotofa

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 09:12 PM

That may be, but the 50D/40t PlusX I have means that if you expose this film in daylight, set your ASA to 50. If the light is predominantly tungsten, set the light meter/ASA to 40. You do not use a 85 filter with this film. You can, but the internal meter will naturally change the ASA from 40 to 25 effective ASA since it is TTL. Heck, put any filter in front and you have changed the effective ASA.

No need for the orange filter unless you like orange filters. The nice thing about plusx and b&w in general is that you can be fairly lax with setting the ASA and make most corrections in developing or in post NLE. Not so with color reversal films.
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#17 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 09:39 PM

That may be, but the 50D/40t PlusX I have means that if you expose this film in daylight, set your ASA to 50. If the light is predominantly tungsten, set the light meter/ASA to 40. You do not use a 85 filter with this film. You can, but the internal meter will naturally change the ASA from 40 to 25 effective ASA since it is TTL. Heck, put any filter in front and you have changed the effective ASA.

No need for the orange filter unless you like orange filters. The nice thing about plusx and b&w in general is that you can be fairly lax with setting the ASA and make most corrections in developing or in post NLE. Not so with color reversal films.



You may have 50D/40T plusx, but the way Kodak worded it on the Plus X box I have is 40T/32D but the camera treats it like 25D. So is there such a thing as "indoor" black and white versus "outdoor" black and white, or is it all the same and the 85 filter is merely an option if one wants to create a "punchier" more contrasty look?

If the black and white film is "neutral", then might the 85 filter differently affect how the film is exposed depending on whether the filter is used black indoors or outdoors? Does the 85 filter reduce sensitivity an equal amount regardless if the black and white film is shot indoors or outdoors?
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#18 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 September 2006 - 11:04 PM

It's been so long since I've seen an S8 box.
Might it be 40T 32D w/85 filter?



I remember something like 10 years ago being confused by the following specs that were printed on the Kodak Black and White Super-8 boxes..

The Tri-X box says....Daylight (with filter) EI 200 / 24
....Tungsten EI 160/ 23

The Plus-X box says....Daylight (with filter) EI 32/ 16
....Tungsten (without filter) EI 40/ 17

I didn't understand how the Daylight with filter had a higher ASA on the Tri-X but a lower ASA on the Plus-X than the Tungsten option. I still don't.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The NEW PLUS-X box says...
.....Daylight (without filter) EI 100/21
.....Tungsten (without filter) EI 80/20
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#19 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 04:22 PM

That may be, but the 50D/40t PlusX I have means that if you expose this film in daylight, set your ASA to 50. If the light is predominantly tungsten, set the light meter/ASA to 40. You do not use a 85 filter with this film. You can, but the internal meter will naturally change the ASA from 40 to 25 effective ASA since it is TTL. Heck, put any filter in front and you have changed the effective ASA.

No need for the orange filter unless you like orange filters. The nice thing about plusx and b&w in general is that you can be fairly lax with setting the ASA and make most corrections in developing or in post NLE. Not so with color reversal films.


A lot of cheap S8 cameras didn't have TTL meters.
& had internal 85 filters. Don't recall if a notch on the cartridge controled the filter.
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#20 Daniel Henriquez Ilic

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Posted 07 September 2006 - 11:58 PM

Hello,

In my experience, the 7276 Plus-X had more resolution than the new one (7265).
But the 7265 Plus-X is still a nice stock.

Regards,
Daniel
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