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Managing off-line edits to keycode


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#1 Michael Collier

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:01 PM

I am about a month from actually needing the info, so I suppose I will discuss this all with the transfer house in the future, but I would like to have a rough idea of the workflow before I shoot, so I don't screw anything up.

I am shooting 16mm stock for a short, then telecining to DVCPRO for my offline edit. It is my understanding that I will get a 'flex file' on disk, which is just a data base conforming my time code to the keycode on the film (am I right so far, or have I gotten lost already?)

Now I cut the film in something like premiere or avid (I have both availible to me, I think avid would be better able to handle the EDL in a standard way, but only premiere would be able to conform the HD transfer automatically, since my version of Avid is older) Send the EDL to the lab or the rough cut?

Now here is where confusion sets in. I have my rough cut, EDL and negative. I have my flex files. the rough cut may have the keycode burned into the letterbox if need be, this may make things easy on the telecine later, I don't know how they work. I guess my question is what do they need from me to easily find the shots I used? Do they run my flex files and my EDL through a machine and that controls the spirit telecine to find the exact shots needed, or do they look at my edl and by hand forward the machine to the part I need? I want every shot with maybe 10-20 second handels on each side, just in case I decide to add a transition or move the edit line a bit, is this something I need flagged in the EDL, or just tell the telecine op when it gets transfered.

Anybody who knows how they (PWNY in specific, or any lab in general) matches up an EDL with flex files to the negative? Like I said I want to square things away with them before actually doing it, but some advance knowledge will help lead the discussion and make sure I ask the right questions. Errors of communication always cost the producer. Thanks in advance.
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#2 dr_gonzo

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 06:40 PM

I'm going to be picking up my transferred footage at PWNY tomorrow, and then hopefully onlining within a few weeks...so Ill let you know what my experience is with their workflow.
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#3 Michael Collier

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 08:31 PM

That would be great. Are you using their DVcam telecine or thier Spirit? I understand there is a huge difference in price. I am using one then the other. If you can also tell me what the quality is like. I have heard nothing but good from spirits, and hear that PWNY has excelent color timers, but I am just sort of anxious I guess. First shoot on film and I couldn't be more excited. After october, I can truely call myself a film-maker (well I will be closer to my desired profession than I am now.)

I suppose as long as it works anything would be better than the DVX-100, HVR-ZU1, HDCAM setups I have used on all my other movies.
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#4 dr_gonzo

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 08:35 PM

That would be great. Are you using their DVcam telecine or thier Spirit? I understand there is a huge difference in price. I am using one then the other. If you can also tell me what the quality is like. I have heard nothing but good from spirits, and hear that PWNY has excelent color timers, but I am just sort of anxious I guess. First shoot on film and I couldn't be more excited. After october, I can truely call myself a film-maker (well I will be closer to my desired profession than I am now.)

I suppose as long as it works anything would be better than the DVX-100, HVR-ZU1, HDCAM setups I have used on all my other movies.


I'm using their spirit to transfer to Digi Beta, and then dub copies to Mini DV. Hopefully Ill be able to use on of my editor contacts to get back in their to online my film for free....

My footage is B&W so I wont have much to tell you about their color timers:(

Good luck with your shoot!
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#5 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 08:38 PM

Hi,

Theoretically it would be possible to write software to turn a Premiere EDL and Flex reference files into a keykode cutting list. My contact with this area is slight, but it's just a bit of database interaction. I suspect the Avid would produce a more standard CMX-3600 EDL, but that's not really what you need anyway (and the Premiere ones can be standardised by removing junk).

Someone else will doubtless pipe up with an automatic CMX-to-Keykode matchback tool, but it's something I've been interested in having a crack at for some time and if someone wants to send me the data files, I might have a look at it.

Phil
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#6 Michael Most

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 08:58 PM

Anybody who knows how they (PWNY in specific, or any lab in general) matches up an EDL with flex files to the negative? Like I said I want to square things away with them before actually doing it, but some advance knowledge will help lead the discussion and make sure I ask the right questions. Errors of communication always cost the producer. Thanks in advance.


If you printed everything (not just print takes), most telecine houses will use continuous time code on a lab roll basis. In other words, if the lab tied together camera rolls 1-3 as lab roll 1, that roll will start on videotape at a given time code (usually an even hour, but some places use 10, 20, or 30 minute increments). The lab or telecine facility will usually punch a frame as the start frame. When the film is hung the second time, the code will be initialized to the same start frame and recorded to tape accordingly. The keycode in this case is used primarily as a double check to ensure accuracy. The primary tracking code is the timecode.

As for lists, it is generally your responsibility to supply EDL/keycode lists. That's why most film editors use either Avid (which contains FilmScribe, which produces a combined list) or Final Cut (whose Cinema Tools produces film lists). Premiere is not often used in part because of its lack of a companion program to track film information.
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