Jump to content


Photo

Kodachrome - Home Processing as Color Negative


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 grantsmith

grantsmith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 138 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 22 September 2006 - 02:50 PM

I know you can't develop this as reversal at home yourself though it can be done as a B+W negative.

Has anyone had any success trying to develop it as a color negative (c41, ecn2)? Can this be done?

What has happened to the lab equipment which is now dissused? Will this be offered to any lab in Europe wishing to carry this out (although I'm sure if Kodak was loosing money on this while the stock was still made its unlikely that anyone would wish to buy it now that it is discontinued). Andec?

It seems such a shame that there is still so much stock lying around which is only a year or so out of date which could be put to good use. Its not really cost effective for those in Europe to send their carts to America.

If anyone has had any success with getting any kind of color image without using a kodak/kodak approved lab then I'd be really interested in how they did it.

Thank you.
  • 0

#2 Sam Wells

Sam Wells
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1751 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 September 2006 - 04:44 PM

Has anyone had any success trying to develop it as a color negative (c41, ecn2)? Can this be done?


No, it has no dye couplers !

-Sam
  • 0

#3 Ry Kawanaka

Ry Kawanaka
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • Student

Posted 22 September 2006 - 05:15 PM

Is he talking about cross process?
  • 0

#4 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 22 September 2006 - 09:45 PM

Has anyone had any success trying to develop it as a color negative (c41, ecn2)? Can this be done?

NO WAY!

Normal Colour negative films (and reversal films for that mater) have what are called "couplers" in the three (or more) layers. A dye is formed from the coupler as the colour developer is working on the film. The right colour in the right layer...

Without the couplers, their is no colour dyes formed, and so the entire image would fade away in the bleach.

Kodachome does not have the couplers so Is developed in three separate developers, one for each layer. To be able to do this, it has to be done on the re-expouser time, and they actually expose each layer separately. One on the front, one on the back, and the middle one chemicaly after everyone else is done.
  • 0

#5 Roy Cross

Roy Cross
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Other
  • Montreal

Posted 23 September 2006 - 09:04 AM

"It seems such a shame that there is still so much stock lying around which is only a year or so out of date which could be put to good use. Its not really cost effective for those in Europe to send their carts to America."





So much of this stock laying around? Where?

I'm interested in buying 16mm Kodachrome.

I just sent my last two Super8 rolls in.

Roy

Edited by Roy Cross, 23 September 2006 - 09:07 AM.

  • 0

#6 grantsmith

grantsmith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 138 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 23 September 2006 - 02:19 PM

thanks for your replies Sam and Charles. Alway appreciate your answers about film processes.

Pity though. I knew it was a complicated process but I thought there might have been some way to get a color image out of it trying some other way.

Roy - Try e-bay. Plenty kodachrome there. Also try asking friends/colleagues. Many people didnt realise that there was a cut off date so still have some lying about in their fridge. I've managed to procure 7 rolls that way in the last few days. Its very expensive to send them to America from Europe so people with some still lying around are not to into using it.

I think 16mm kodachrome will hold its value for quite a while in Europe as the cut of date is the end of the year.
  • 0

#7 Bernhard Zitz

Bernhard Zitz
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Other
  • Zürich, Switzerland

Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:46 AM

I know you can't develop this as reversal at home yourself though it can be done as a B+W negative.

I read some where it can be done in B+W process. With very random brown results, no colors... I can't remember that site, maybee I'll find it later...

This is a requiem for a film. K40 is over, yesterday was the deadline for processing in europe. I was at Kodak-Lab in Renens Switzerland to bring my last rolls of k40. It's really sad, they process the last films these days...

16mm will be processed till end of 2006 in Dwaynes USA. Processing and shipping is paid by Kodak.

For Super8 you pay processing in USA...
  • 0

#8 grantsmith

grantsmith
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 138 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 26 September 2006 - 04:29 PM

yeh Bernhard its an end of an era. very sad.

I've still got a few rolls of k40 16mm. Do I still post to Switzerland and they post to Dwaynes?


One last thing about Kodachrome, its a bit irrelevant but I just like to know these little things, why were 8mm and 16mm available in k25 and k40 but super 8 (to my knowledge) was only k40?

goodbye good old kodachrome
  • 0

#9 Roy Cross

Roy Cross
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Other
  • Montreal

Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:41 PM

Thanks for the friendly advice on finding some Kodachrome 16, but all my colleagues with Kodachrome 16 are holding it close to their own Bolex. My ebay search turns up display boxes that have been in a mom and pop photography store since 1965.

I'll keep looking. But as far as I know, Dwaynes will process long after the end of this year. As far as I can tell from their web site, Kodak intends to keep producing Kodachrome in 35mm for consumer slide photography and I am assuming that means chemistry will be be available for a place like Dwaynes.

I had a roll of Kodachrome 16mm that I bought during a trip to LA in 1992 and didn't get around to shooting it until 2003. I sent it to Dwaynes and it came back as beautiful as anything.

There is a lab in Indian Head, Saskatchewn , Canada that runs old and acient film process. It will process film that your granddad shot in 1965 but never got around to dropping off at the lab. Sadly, they can not colour process any films without dyes in the emulsion (like agfachrome). http://www.filmrescue.com/

For your interest.

Roy
  • 0

#10 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:55 PM

why were 8mm and 16mm available in k25 and k40 but super 8 (to my knowledge) was only k40?

Part of the Super 8 Spec was to put an 85 filter in all cameras, and to have a notch on the cartrige if it was needed, so ALL super 8 cameras will by defult put an 85 in front of K-40. (many will override it by putting a 1/4-20 screw in the hole in the top, which is where the Movie light would have attched.

Regualr 8 camera were often supplied with the 85 filter, often in series 4. Thye could also use K-40 with filter in daylight. Conviently the K-40 with Filter has an effective speed of 25, just like the daylight K-25.
  • 0

#11 David Venhaus

David Venhaus
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts
  • Other
  • Wiseburn, CA

Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:55 PM

Kodachrome can be developed in the standard black and white negative process (plus the remjet removal). The base comes out greenish and the exposed areas are black, similar results to cross processing e-6 films in the black and white neg. process. A formula for a modified fixer to bleach the remaining filter layer is availible elsewhere on the web, as to get a more regular b+w neg.
  • 0

#12 John Pytlak RIP

John Pytlak RIP

    (deceased)

  • Sustaining Members
  • 3499 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Rochester, NY 14650-1922

Posted 27 September 2006 - 09:03 AM

Since KODACHROME film has no incorporated couplers, no dyes can be formed in color processes like C-41, ECN-2, E-6, etc. As noted, processing KODACHROME film in one of these color processes will yield NO IMAGE, as the silver image is bleached out during these processes. Processing KODACHROME film in a B&W process will yield an image, but the results are unpredictable.

Dwaynes Photo still processes 16mm and Super-8 KODACHROME movie films:

http://www.kodak.com...e...1.4.7&lc=en

http://www.kodak.com...e...1.4.7&lc=en
  • 0

#13 Bernhard Zitz

Bernhard Zitz
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Other
  • Zürich, Switzerland

Posted 27 September 2006 - 01:06 PM

I've still got a few rolls of k40 16mm. Do I still post to Switzerland and they post to Dwaynes?


Sorry I wasn't very clear. You send them to Kodak Switzerland, they send them to Dwaynes and back. Anything works like before just for the fact that your films cross twice the antlantic (haha! also some kind of crossprocessing :D ), and it might take a little longer to get them back...

on the homepage of wittner kinotechnik there's still some k40, but it says "Die Produktion wurde leider eingestellt. Lieferung nur noch solange Vorrat reicht." (Production has been stoped, delivery as long our stocks lasts), I wonder if they still have some...

http://www.wittner-k...mm/16_filmm.php

cheers, Bernhard

Edited by Bernhard Zitz, 27 September 2006 - 01:11 PM.

  • 0

#14 James Erd

James Erd
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Director
  • Palo Alto, CA

Posted 21 November 2006 - 03:13 PM

Kodachrome can be developed in the standard black and white negative process (plus the remjet removal). The base comes out greenish and the exposed areas are black, similar results to cross processing e-6 films in the black and white neg. process. A formula for a modified fixer to bleach the remaining filter layer is availible elsewhere on the web, as to get a more regular b+w neg.


I'd bet it could be processed as B&W reversal as well. I'd like to know more about the bleaching of the filter layer. Do you have a web address?
  • 0


Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineTape

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Opal

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Metropolis Post

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

CineTape

The Slider

Technodolly

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS