Jump to content


Photo

Sound recording and XL2


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 hugo klein

hugo klein

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Director

Posted 23 September 2006 - 11:33 PM

If you had some money and had XL2 and a shotgun on a boom, how would you record the sound? Buy Sound Devices 302 and older Nagra? Sound Devices and into the camera? DAT? Hard drive? M-Audio and laptop? If you were doing a feature, and had minimal crew, what would you use?
  • 0

#2 Tim J Durham

Tim J Durham
  • Sustaining Members
  • 742 posts
  • Director
  • East Coast, Baby!

Posted 24 September 2006 - 07:39 AM

If you had some money and had XL2 and a shotgun on a boom, how would you record the sound? Buy Sound Devices 302 and older Nagra? Sound Devices and into the camera? DAT? Hard drive? M-Audio and laptop? If you were doing a feature, and had minimal crew, what would you use?


If I were doing it with a skeleton crew, I'd go with the SD302 into the camera. I'd also have a couple of Tram lav mics ($300.00ea.) and two wireless set-ups which can be rented cheaply.
But I'm a TV guy.
  • 0

#3 hugo klein

hugo klein

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Director

Posted 24 September 2006 - 09:59 AM

Thanks. I am getting some lavs. Do you think the quality of sound from the camera (with the 302) is reasonably okay compare to recorder? I would prefer not using a recorder to keep it simpler but how much do I sacrifice that way?
  • 0

#4 Tim J Durham

Tim J Durham
  • Sustaining Members
  • 742 posts
  • Director
  • East Coast, Baby!

Posted 24 September 2006 - 10:32 AM

Thanks. I am getting some lavs. Do you think the quality of sound from the camera (with the 302) is reasonably okay compare to recorder? I would prefer not using a recorder to keep it simpler but how much do I sacrifice that way?

I'm no audio expert but I think it should be the same quality as a DAT in 16 bit 48kHz.
  • 0

#5 hugo klein

hugo klein

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Director

Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:11 PM

I am surprised there is not more response. Although the analog vs. digital debate is old, I was hoping to (and couldn't find much in archive) see a discussion on best possible, or best compromises, as it pertains to XL2. Anyone using analog with this camera or is everyone recording straight to the tape or through beachtec or 302 to the tape? Or through some converter (i.e M-Audio) to laptop? Is anyone using a Nagra with XL2? Thanks.
  • 0

#6 Jay Gladwell

Jay Gladwell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 144 posts
  • Miami, FL

Posted 24 September 2006 - 07:37 PM

The sound recording quality of the XL2 is excellent. The quality of the microphones and their proper placement will have a far greater impact on the quality of your sound.

That said, if you plan to use multiple mics, then you will need some sort of a mixer. However, if you go this route, you'd darn well better have a sound person who knows what he's doing, regardless what he's recording to!
  • 0

#7 hugo klein

hugo klein

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Director

Posted 24 September 2006 - 08:09 PM

The sound recording quality of the XL2 is excellent. The quality of the microphones and their proper placement will have a far greater impact on the quality of your sound.

That said, if you plan to use multiple mics, then you will need some sort of a mixer. However, if you go this route, you'd darn well better have a sound person who knows what he's doing, regardless what he's recording to!



I am glad to hear that. I never used multiple mics and see no reason to do so in any near future. Thanks
  • 0

#8 Tim J Durham

Tim J Durham
  • Sustaining Members
  • 742 posts
  • Director
  • East Coast, Baby!

Posted 25 September 2006 - 06:55 AM

I am surprised there is not more response. Although the analog vs. digital debate is old, I was hoping to (and couldn't find much in archive) see a discussion on best possible, or best compromises, as it pertains to XL2. Anyone using analog with this camera or is everyone recording straight to the tape or through beachtec or 302 to the tape? Or through some converter (i.e M-Audio) to laptop? Is anyone using a Nagra with XL2? Thanks.


You 'expected' someone here to have used a Nagra with an XL-2?
  • 0

#9 hugo klein

hugo klein

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Director

Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:48 AM

Well, maybe, sort of...maybe old Nagra III? Is it that crazy? You are wondering because of the cost of Nagra compared to XL2, right?
  • 0

#10 Jay Gladwell

Jay Gladwell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 144 posts
  • Miami, FL

Posted 25 September 2006 - 05:53 PM

Well, maybe, sort of...maybe old Nagra III? Is it that crazy? You are wondering because of the cost of Nagra compared to XL2, right?

How would you sync the Nagra to the XL2? Can it be done (I don't know)? If you could, then you'd have to digitize the audio in post and worry again about maintaining sync.

Back in the day, the audio from the Nagra was transferred to magnetic film. Ah... those were the days... very expensive days!
  • 0

#11 Matthew Parnell

Matthew Parnell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 285 posts
  • Electrician
  • Brisbane, Australia

Posted 25 September 2006 - 07:02 PM

Syncing the Nagra in post after digitising is your answer there... simple use of a slate.

There is a hell of a lot more analogue audio work done than what you think, but it is predominantly just in the sound capture stage. Analogue is a bit like film, but it has just phased out much quicker because digital gear has become so advanced and more cost effective, much quicker than what video/digital cinema has.

You nearly will always get better quality recording onto a sperate recorder than your camera. Most camera mic preamps, headphone amps and most of the audio electronics are much cheaper than what you would get in a decent mixer and recorder. The XL2 records in a similar format to DAT and most new solid state recorders. For both parties while filming, being tethered together is a bit of a pain. Also arround sound recordist circles the XL series of camera (particularly the XL1) has a pretty average reputation as a tool to work with.

However, recording straight onto the XL2 make life in post much easier. So its a matter of weighing the two up and deciding on what works best for you.
  • 0

#12 hugo klein

hugo klein

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Director

Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:40 PM

I see. Thanks for that info. Back in a day I had a Nagra III and loved it. I am planning to get the Sound Device 302 or Mixpre to use with the XL2. So the question was just the recording media. I also wanted to see what others are doing for sound with this camera.
  • 0

#13 Tim J Durham

Tim J Durham
  • Sustaining Members
  • 742 posts
  • Director
  • East Coast, Baby!

Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:15 AM

I see. Thanks for that info. Back in a day I had a Nagra III and loved it. I am planning to get the Sound Device 302 or Mixpre to use with the XL2. So the question was just the recording media. I also wanted to see what others are doing for sound with this camera.

I think it's worth the extra money to get the 302. It's more flexible and has a much greater resale market if you need to unload it. It is becoming the standard mixer for television news (in those cases where there is still a sound man) and field production.
  • 0

#14 hugo klein

hugo klein

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Director

Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:36 AM

Great. Thanks Tim for all the advice. I will get the 302.
  • 0

#15 Jay Gladwell

Jay Gladwell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 144 posts
  • Miami, FL

Posted 26 September 2006 - 10:58 AM

Syncing the Nagra in post after digitising is your answer there... simple use of a slate.

No, it's not quite that simple. That may work on very short takes, just a few seconds. Even though both are digital, unless there is some device keeping the two--camera and recorder--in sync, they will drift.
  • 0


Abel Cine

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Opal

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Technodolly

rebotnix Technologies

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

CineLab

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

Abel Cine

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Tai Audio

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC