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question from a student who want to buy his first camera


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#1 marlo

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:01 AM

I have found two second hands camera what would be your choice?

16mm cuton eclair s16 mm with angenieux lens 17/70 mm 2 mag 2 motor 6ims 48 ims all accesoir 3000€ (3600$)

OR

Aaton LTR 7 S-16 package with Angenieux 10-150 lens 2 standart Mags, grip, 2 batteries, charger, custom case
3000€

maybe other suggestions?

I have found this too :


Cinematographers own gear. Arri 16 -BL: Rock steady, pin registration -standard setting ARRI movement: this is a very late model "FLAT SIDE" ARRIFLEX - utilizing Arri's own crystal control - built in. This also has a 11 PIN FISHER pin out: crucial for IRIS/SPEED control, single framing/animation controllers etc, etc! It comes stock with the Arriflex BAYONET mount [also accepts standard mount ARRI lenses], this is a self-blimped, RARE factory supplied ARRIFLEX X-tal sync [this was the last of the BL-16's and this cyristal sync/drive was the template for the SR series which followed it] and variable speed [9/12/24-48 fps] camera. The controller drives 9/12/24/48 crystal speeds and can run at any and all speeds from 4 fps up to 60 fps with any Fisher pin external speed control [external speed control not included] running into the FISHER connector. This exceptionally built up package also features a state-of-the-art AZ Spectrum BLACK & WHITE video tap AND includes a 3.5" X 6.0" DSP LCD monitor - with PAL/NTSC inputs, mirror image option and all related 12 volt and 120 volt power supply & cables [TAP & Monitor can run on 12/120 volt]. Monitor can stand alone or mounts to camera [camera to monitor mount & remote monitor stand supplied]. The camera features an extremely rare Arri FIBER OPTIC ground glass with "TV SAFE", framing brackets, and crosshairs which are also transmitted to the color monitor via the built in video tap - great for watching microphone placement down into the frameline. Camera package also includes RARE - ARRI SR; EXTENDED, very BRIGHT viewfinder [pictured], a CARL ZIESS 10 -100 blimped zoom lens (T2.8) . PLEASE NOTE: - this is a three gear BLIMPED lens with 3, seperate, 32p aluminum gears for iris control, zoom control and pulling focus, THIS PACKAGE ALSO INCLUDES: an ANGENIEX 5.9 super wide angle lens with sunshade, front & back covers, original case. Also included is an ARRI SR sliding dovetail base with a pair of 15 mm rods, and an offset riser to accomodate focus, iris, and zoom drives [motors not supplied]. Additionally, this set-up includs a Huco follow focus & ff bracket & gears, a removable 3" X 3" Arri Matte box as well as a ARRI removable dual filter slot module. Also included are SIX (6) 400' Arriflex magazines with 12 ARRI expansion cores, 6 collapsable film cores, 6 film keepers, and a clean, Arri dedicated, 4 magazine flight case . This Package INCLUDES (2) TWO 7.2 a/h Bescor battery belts [less then 20 cycles each], with dual option outputs for XLR style and cigarette lighter (can be used simultaneously), charger inputs with 2 BESCOR smart chargers, and dedicated flight case! SYSTEM ALSO INCLUDES: ARRI remote start switch with 10.5 meter [!] cable, XLR 4pin power input cable, BNC vid tap cable, 12 volt and 120 volt dedicated power supply cables for the video tap and LCD monitor [2 each]. Additionaly, this package includes 12 various glass 3" X 3" filters cc, diffusion, optical glass [filter list provided on request] in a dedicated filter case. YES, THIS LIST CONTINUES ... There is a CALZONE style flight case for the camera and a PELICAN case for the acessories, an ARRIFLEX magazine barney, and a copy of the owners manual. This camera was completely overhauled, & lens collimation by Axel Broda - ARRI techik - EXTRORDINAIRE: just one year ago. Full documentation on all service work. Camera strobes to 24.000 fps to three decimal places. This is a pro shooters set-up, plain and simple. COMPLETE : READY TO ROCK... and roll because I'm including (8) 400 foot factory fresh, factory sealed cans of KODAK color negative film! Convert to S16 at THE ARANDA GROUP, add a Hedon/microforce zoom and you have a complete studio package"

FOR 5,800$

Edited by marlo, 26 September 2006 - 09:06 AM.

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#2 marlo

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 09:12 AM

In fact I want something not too hard to use, and a cam that i can take on my shoulder for a price range 2000/5000$

Edited by marlo, 26 September 2006 - 09:14 AM.

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#3 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 26 September 2006 - 10:31 AM

16 BL is not a very good choice, to me. Also the guy is a bit pushing too hard on the "incredible" etc. commercial side to seem that honest... It sounds like some other ads that were on ebay you may find about in the forums make a research...



I'd choose the aaton better than the eclair, myself. But the lenses can be a point...
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#4 Rik Andino

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 02:46 AM

I'm an Aaton man myself...
And I have to agree that the Aaton is the better choice.

However I would search for a newer Aaton if you can afford it.
Something closer to an LTR-54 is easier to maintain than an older LTR.

You should also see if you can get it checked and evaluated by a tech before you buy...
You don't want to have a camera that'll needs tons of work before you can use it.


Good Luck
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#5 Annie Wengenroth

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 04:10 AM

Don't get a BL...if you're gonna go the Arriflex route, if anything, see if you can find a good SR package. (Which I can tell you right now will cost more money, but may be worth it to you) And don't get an Eclair because you'll have a hell of a time finding a place that will service it. But otherwise, like Rik said, you might do well with an Aaton. While they are not necessarily as durable as Arriflex cameras, they are really good for handheld/run-and-gun type shooting and if they're well-maintained, they are very quiet. The LTR you listed seems like a decent deal, you just have to make sure it was serviced recently and that you're paying for good-quality stuff. If you do get a camera, I would also suggest making sure you have good accessories for it. It sounds weird but those little things are the things that could potentially trip you up as you're shooting, like if the batteries are a little clunky or the matte box fits awkwardly. I dont' know where you live but it might be worth visiting a rental house and asking them to show you the same type of lens, battery, etc...that way you have an idea of what you'd be working with before you buy it. (If you're in NYC, go to Abel and look at their Aaton stuff, they are very helpful!)
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#6 Laurent Andrieux

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Posted 27 September 2006 - 07:07 PM

BTW, marlo, if you use your real name as your display name or, at least, sign your posts, you may get more answers...
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