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Stock for Bleach by pass on S16


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#1 Hugh Wei

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:26 AM

Hi Everyone

I'm shooting a film in a month. I am very interesting in high contrast, rich black, a bit desaterated colour. therefore, the option would be bleach by pass, but is there any film stock which is specifically good for bleach by pass, or a stock that you use and think is great. personally, i am a big fun of kodak film stock, however, the production has better access to fuji.

would appreciate any personal insight or suggestions

cheers

Hu
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#2 J Costantini

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:07 PM

If you have the chance to use kodak I suggest 7217 (200T) which is a fine grained stock and will react beautifully to bleach by pass. I'd suggest you to try underexposing 1 to 2 stops if you want to preserve your highlights a little more. But definately all the vision 2 line will handle bleach processing well. be careful with the 500 stocks specially 29.


Hi Everyone

I'm shooting a film in a month. I am very interesting in high contrast, rich black, a bit desaterated colour. therefore, the option would be bleach by pass, but is there any film stock which is specifically good for bleach by pass, or a stock that you use and think is great. personally, i am a big fun of kodak film stock, however, the production has better access to fuji.

would appreciate any personal insight or suggestions

cheers

Hu


Edited by nillo, 13 October 2006 - 10:08 PM.

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#3 Scott Fritzshall

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 01:37 AM

I think that any of the Vision2 stocks should perform pretty well, but 7217 is always a safe bet.
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#4 Hugh Wei

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 09:40 AM

Lot people told me the great performence and flexibility that Kodak film stock has for post.
as much as i love Kodak, I would still need to ask a bit opinion on Fuji film.

personally, I have never done bleach by pass on Fuji film, however, I do wander how it would turn out.

I am not keeping much faith on Eterna series for bleach by pass, the 5 stop range lattitude....
I shot a short on it once.... it looks flat (personally, like high contrast)

Fiju F series has good contrast and colour.
has anybody bleach by pass fiju f series film

HU
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 12:22 PM

I don't get it -- the Fuji Eterna series has a slightly flatter look than the Kodak Vision-2 series, but that would be helpful when doing a skip-bleach because of the big increase in contrast that occurs.

Sure, you can skip-bleach the F-Series, except that now there is only 64D and 125T available -- 250D, 250T, 400T, and 500T are all Eterna, and older 500D is too grainy. But I think it would make more sense to skip-bleach Eterna than the higher-contrast F-Series.

My only experience with negative skip-bleach involved using the low-con Fuji F-400, which came out great, so I don't see why you are so concerned about Fuji vs. Kodak when both are so similar these days and skip-bleaching produces such a non-standard look anyway.

Basically if you want less grain, use a slower stock, and if you want to minimize the increase in contrast, use a less contrasty negative stock -- this holds true whether you are using Kodak or Fuji.

People say that Kodak has more "flexibility" because the Vision-2 stocks are low in grain and have a wide exposure latitude -- well, if that's what you want, then the new Fuji Eterna stocks have the same improvements and perhaps even a wider latitude (lower contrast.) Wide exposure latitude and contrast go hand in hand.
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#6 Chris Burke

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 02:21 PM

Hi Everyone

I'm shooting a film in a month. I am very interesting in high contrast, rich black, a bit desaterated colour. therefore, the option would be bleach by pass, but is there any film stock which is specifically good for bleach by pass, or a stock that you use and think is great. personally, i am a big fun of kodak film stock, however, the production has better access to fuji.

would appreciate any personal insight or suggestions

cheers

Hu



We did not do a skip bleach nor have we timed the footage yet, but this is an example of the Eterna 250T with Antique Suede (don't remember which grade). We will be doing a DI, this example is a one light for editorial. Go to www.chrisburke.net and click on the "Gates Clips 2" link. Just thought I would show you what this stock looks like. I can post other examples with higher contrast if you would like.

Chris
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#7 Hugh Wei

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 11:41 AM

We did not do a skip bleach nor have we timed the footage yet, but this is an example of the Eterna 250T with Antique Suede (don't remember which grade). We will be doing a DI, this example is a one light for editorial. Go to www.chrisburke.net and click on the "Gates Clips 2" link. Just thought I would show you what this stock looks like. I can post other examples with higher contrast if you would like.

Chris



Hi Chris

Would be greatful if you don't mind post other examples with higher contrast. and I was trying to open those clips, but is there a specific programme i need to run, becuase somehow i cann't open them.

Hugh

I don't get it -- the Fuji Eterna series has a slightly flatter look than the Kodak Vision-2 series, but that would be helpful when doing a skip-bleach because of the big increase in contrast that occurs.

Sure, you can skip-bleach the F-Series, except that now there is only 64D and 125T available -- 250D, 250T, 400T, and 500T are all Eterna, and older 500D is too grainy. But I think it would make more sense to skip-bleach Eterna than the higher-contrast F-Series.

My only experience with negative skip-bleach involved using the low-con Fuji F-400, which came out great, so I don't see why you are so concerned about Fuji vs. Kodak when both are so similar these days and skip-bleaching produces such a non-standard look anyway.

Basically if you want less grain, use a slower stock, and if you want to minimize the increase in contrast, use a less contrasty negative stock -- this holds true whether you are using Kodak or Fuji.

People say that Kodak has more "flexibility" because the Vision-2 stocks are low in grain and have a wide exposure latitude -- well, if that's what you want, then the new Fuji Eterna stocks have the same improvements and perhaps even a wider latitude (lower contrast.) Wide exposure latitude and contrast go hand in hand.



Hi David

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I suppose, the reason i go for bleach-by- pass is to create higher contrast and desaturated looking, and i kind of stuck to the notion that the flatter stock will clash with the purpose of Bleach-by-pass.

it certainly make more sense to shoot on flatter stock and skip bleach by pass. I am doing some test in a week, so i will just find out what's the look of each stock then.

Hugh
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#8 ljoski johnsen

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 11:54 PM

Hi,

I did 7217 and 7279 bleach bypass and I felt 79 came out more desaturated and 17. Maybe it has something to do with the amounts of silver in those two films. I actually liked the way 79 bleach-bypassed looked more.
I rated my meter to 500 for 17 and 1000 for 79 for compensating the increased density. High light gets really crashed easily. So be careful.

Ljoski J
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#9 David Cavallo

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 01:38 PM

My only experience with negative skip-bleach involved using the low-con Fuji F-400, which came out great,


Hi David,

How did you rate the F-400 for the negative skip-bleach? I just shot a Super 16 short using the Fuji Eterna 400T in which we are doing a full bleach bypass on the negative. I rated the stock normally (EI 400) but based on the advice of a colleague I was extremely careful on set to control the shadows (no more than 2 stops under unless I wanted BLACK blacks) and highlights (never more than 1/2 stop over except in the rare instance where blown out white was acceptable).

I ask primarily because it appears most folks underexpose between 1/2 stop to a stop for any sort of skip bleach/silver retention process (and then light normally?) and I'm concerned that my approach was backwards. I really made it a priority to create minimal contrast and relatively soft light with carefully placed, but small hard accents that never went more than 1/2 stop over key. (I shot everything at 2.8 so I could use both my eyes and my meter most effectively in this regard.) In addition, art direction was carefully planned so tones would work well with the Eterna's soft pallete and the bypass's skewed color "sense."

Of course I had strongly advised a test early in pre-production, and then warned the director that we MUST test as the shoot approached, but the time/money for the test never surfaced. I will confess that the script is a nasty piece (all night interiors, too) that lends itself to a harsh look, and that the director seemed pleased when I said "things might get ugly." (Jarhead's desert exteriors were cited as an extreme example of where highlights can go with a skip bleach.)

And I had also advised the director that we find a lab that offered either a scalable bypass or some other silver retention process that wasn't as radical as a full bypass, but the director/producer stuck with DuArt in NYC, which only offers the full bypass. And because we're finishing on video--dailies are going to telecine with only a slight possiblity of blow-up to 35mm pending budget and other factors--I couldn't advise a bleach bypass on an IP or IN.

I suppose I can take some solace in the fact that if the dailies come back terribly overexposed, the process (though somewhat costly) is reversible. But then I'd have a flat neg and some relatively dull lighting to contend with. Wish I'd had that test (or consulted this forum first)...sigh.

Thanks,
David
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