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Can you go from HD-SDI out to MacBookPro?


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#1 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:35 PM

The XL-H1 is cool but I'm looking at the XH-G1 because it's so much less $.

I'm thinking of buying a Canon HDV camera but don't need the HD-SDI out because I
can't afford to rent the appropriate decks and I don't need genlock.

A salesman told me that with my MacBookPro and Final Cut Pro I could record uncompressed
HD -Not HDV - using the HD-SDI out which if true would be great even if I had to spend some money on
external drives.

Does anybody know how to do this? I'm thinking of buying the new XH-G1 if I can use the
HD-SDI out; otherwise the XH-A1 is $3000.00 less ! and otherwise the same camera.
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#2 Mr. Shannon W. Rawls

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 10:12 AM

Not true.

Currently there is NO WAY for PC or MAC users to capture HD-SDI using a notebook/portable computer of any kind.

People are waiting and there is a german company in the works on a PC Card that will do it, but currently no company offers this at all. Desktop computers are your only option.
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#3 sibte hassan

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 10:28 AM

I agree with Shannon, portable computers are only made to handle upto 800mbit/sec if you are using firewire 800. That translates to 100MB/s whereas the uncompressed HD footage out of HD SDI will be 190MB/s or 270MB/s depending what format 24 or 30p you are using. For this rate you need a fiberchannel card (2gigBit/sec) with raid and now we are talking $$$. Just out of curiousity, have you tried the Panasonic HVX200. The workiflow is great and DvcProHD works perfectly for me, even though its compressed but its 4:2:2 and I have pulled keys and worked perfectly for me, just a suggestion :)
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#4 Tim O'Connor

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 11:58 AM

I agree with Shannon, portable computers are only made to handle upto 800mbit/sec if you are using firewire 800. That translates to 100MB/s whereas the uncompressed HD footage out of HD SDI will be 190MB/s or 270MB/s depending what format 24 or 30p you are using. For this rate you need a fiberchannel card (2gigBit/sec) with raid and now we are talking $$$. Just out of curiousity, have you tried the Panasonic HVX200. The workiflow is great and DvcProHD works perfectly for me, even though its compressed but its 4:2:2 and I have pulled keys and worked perfectly for me, just a suggestion :)


I just e-mailed that guy - he's the owner of the company and he said that I could go to my laptop -
and asked him again "How?".

Yes, I love the HVX-200 and was all set to buy one last week when this other guy, who does seem
extremely sincere and reputable suggested the XH-G1 with the HD-SDI out and what he says is a far
superior lens to the one one the HVX-200.

I decided to sit tightly and investigate. Since then another vendor whom I know well has suggested I
wait to see the new Sony HDV camera that's coming out in the same price ballpark.

I'll wait a bit but I want to get to work. However, I've heard that editing HDV with Final Cut Pro is a real
drag and taxing on the C.P.U. whereas editing P2 footage is handled a lot easier. I have a MacBookPro
which doesn't accept P2 cards so I think that if I got the HVX-200 maybe I'd skip them and get a
Firestore which would both record footage and could be used by the MacBookPro to capture.
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#5 Stephen Williams

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 12:12 PM

and what he says is a far superior lens to the one one the HVX-200.


Hi,

I hate lens breathing and colour fringing. I actually prefer the fixed vario focal lens's than sub $20,000 zoom lenses. I upset more than 1 company at IBC showing them how bad all the 1/3" chip interchangable lenses were. None of the experts on the stands had ever seen the problem and always said the back focus needed asjusting ! LOL.

Stephen
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#6 sibte hassan

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 12:16 PM

I have a MacBookPro
which doesn't accept P2 cards so I think that if I got the HVX-200 maybe I'd skip them and get a
Firestore which would both record footage and could be used by the MacBookPro to capture.


I have a macBookPro and i know it doesnt have the P2 slot in there but I on set when I am working, two 4gig p2 cards on 1080i gives you 8 minutes. Once we get the shot and while the next shot is being setup i just connect the camera to the laptop and get everything downloaded at 1 gig per minute speed. If you want it to be a faster way then you can have an assistant with a your laptop and you can rent the card reader and hand him the card when its full so by the time you fill the next one he gives you the empty one. This work flow worked seamlessly on a short where I had 9 shots in 6 hours. Also I jacked up memory in my laptop (1.83 ghz) to 2 gigs. It plays back 1080i DVCproHD smooth as silk.
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#7 Mr. Shannon W. Rawls

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 11:37 PM

However, I've heard that editing HDV with Final Cut Pro is a real
drag and taxing on the C.P.U. whereas editing P2 footage is handled a lot easier. I have a MacBookPro.....

A MacBook Pro (any version) would cut through HDV like hot butter. It woud be as easy as DV on that portable computer. And Final Cut Pro handles all versions, modes & frame rates of HDV (even the Canon A1/G1). Not to metion, you can always (in realtime) transcode to AIC which gives you many more realtime effects in FCP then DVCPROHD does. Moreover, it would be full raster HD @ 1920x1080 rather then DVCPROHD which is not.

All this to say.....please do your homework before buying anything.
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#8 Rik Andino

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 12:51 AM

I agree with Shannon, portable computers are only made to handle upto 800mbit/sec if you are using firewire 800. That translates to 100MB/s whereas the uncompressed HD footage out of HD SDI will be 190MB/s or 270MB/s depending what format 24 or 30p you are using. For this rate you need a fiberchannel card (2gigBit/sec) with raid and now we are talking $$$.


This is why Powerbooks & any other notebook computer
Aren't viable options for a profesional HD post workflow.

You're dealing with serious data and you're going to have to get a serious machine.
The new Mac Pro Desktop is a good start
& some high-end PC are excellent for handling uncompressed HD footage.

You're gonna have to realize what most pros already know
Working with uncompressed HD is serious business and requires serious equipment
All of which means you have to spend alot more money.

HDV is perfectly find format to work and learn on...
When you can afford it you can upgrade to the better HD format.


Good Luck
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#9 Tim O'Connor

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 10:23 AM

[quote name='Stephen Williams' post='133244' date='Oct 17 2006, 01:12 PM']
Hi,

I hate lens breathing and colour fringing. I actually prefer the fixed vario focal lens's than sub $20,000 zoom lenses. I upset more than 1 company at IBC showing them how bad all the 1/3" chip interchangable lenses were. None of the experts on the stands had ever seen the problem and always said the back focus needed asjusting ! LOL.

Stephen
[/quote]

I've heard about the lens breathing but haven't used Canon. Is is that bad? I've heard that
the Canon lenses do not not have back focus adjustments. Does the lens on the HVX-200
have one? What is colour fringing?


[quote name='sibte' post='133246' date='Oct 17 2006, 01:16 PM']
I have a macBookPro and i know it doesnt have the P2 slot in there but I on set when I am working, two 4gig p2 cards on 1080i gives you 8 minutes. Once we get the shot and while the next shot is being setup i just connect the camera to the laptop and get everything downloaded at 1 gig per minute speed. If you want it to be a faster way then you can have an assistant with a your laptop and you can rent the card reader and hand him the card when its full so by the time you fill the next one he gives you the empty one. This work flow worked seamlessly on a short where I had 9 shots in 6 hours. Also I jacked up memory in my laptop (1.83 ghz) to 2 gigs. It plays back 1080i DVCproHD smooth as silk.
[/quote]
Are you at all worried about the extra wear and tear mileage using your camera for
playback for capturing?

/quote
HDV is perfectly find format to work and learn on...
When you can afford it you can upgrade to the better HD format.
Good Luck
[/quote]

Rik, Please don't hate me because I know that this has been asked 10 million times but I've been
reading and reading aand reading about HDV vs. (P2) HD. May I ask, what is YOUR opinion
of choosing between the HVX-200 for P2 HD work or a Canon HDV camera such as the G1 or
A1? (The XL-H1 is too much $ for me.)

[quote name='Mr. Shannon W. Rawls' date='Oct 18 2006, 12:37 AM' post='133336']
A MacBook Pro (any version) would cut through HDV like hot butter. It woud be as easy as DV on that portable computer. And Final Cut Pro handles all versions, modes & frame rates of HDV (even the Canon A1/G1). Not to metion, you can always (in realtime) transcode to AIC which gives you many more realtime effects in FCP then DVCPROHD does. Moreover, it would be full raster HD @ 1920x1080 rather then DVCPROHD which is not.

update: The salesman who said that HD-SDI out to a laptop could be done e-mailed
me back what you all said first; that it can't currently be done.

Shannon, a very trusted vendor told me that editing HDV with my MacBookPro would be
like driving a car at 7000 r.p.m.. You've probably had a lot more experience. When you
say a MacBookPro "would" cut through HDV "like hot butter" do you mean that it "does"?

All this to say.....please do your homework before buying anything
/quote


I'm doing as much homework as I can as this buying a camera is a big purchase and
you friends are an enormous help.You know more than all the salespeople. Thank you all
for your contributions and for taking your time to help me!
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#10 sibte hassan

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 12:28 PM

"Are you at all worried about the extra wear and tear mileage using your camera for
playback for capturing?"

In P2 workflow there is no moving parts, P2 is high speed flash card and once you are done shooting you change the mode on the camera to act like a FireWire or USB drive and connect to your laptop and then import footage using FCP 5.0.4 or higher, its all digital. No playback, even if I was playing back it would be all digital again no wear or tear.
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#11 Tim O'Connor

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 02:35 PM

"Are you at all worried about the extra wear and tear mileage using your camera for
playback for capturing?"

In P2 workflow there is no moving parts, P2 is high speed flash card and once you are done shooting you change the mode on the camera to act like a FireWire or USB drive and connect to your laptop and then import footage using FCP 5.0.4 or higher, its all digital. No playback, even if I was playing back it would be all digital again no wear or tear.


Of course, I'm so used to thinking of the camera in VTR mode when using it to capture footage that I
totally spaced on that.!
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#12 Chad Stockfleth

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 02:46 PM

Another option when working with the HVX200 and your MacBook Pro is to get a PCI to Express card adaptor. That would allow you to import footage from your P2 cards.
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#13 sibte hassan

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 12:42 AM

Chad,
Do you use PCI to express card adapter? how much did it cost. i'm interested in getting one.
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