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powering HMIs from Honda EU1000 generators with parallell kit?


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#1 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 09:30 AM

We just bought two Honda Eu1000w inverter series generators with a parallell kit to
utilize them together as a 2K source.

I've always heard that when using HMIs, crystal sync generators are required. I've seen some
on sets and they had red digital readouts on them.

I guess I could always test but I'd rather ask first. Do you think that I can use HMIs with these
generators. Also, if instead of a couple of 575s I wanted to use a 1200w HMI; would the striking
demands be too much? Obviously a 2k power source could handle 1200w but starting up that
1200w HMI might be too much?
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#2 chris evans

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 10:51 PM

I often work with the Honda inverter series of generators. Yes they can strike an HMI. The inverter part of the genny balances the power to accomplish this. However, you do need to read the manuals. 1000w is the max this generator puts out, but it's consistent running output is lower. I can't remember what it is right now. Should whatever you plug into this spike, the genny can continue to run.

I've never used the EU1000i, EU2000i, or EU3000is in parallel. I did get to test an Arri 1200 par on the EU2000i and it held. It did suck a lot of fuel due to it running probably close to, if not at, max running output. Curious to see if it will work with the parallel set up.

Good luck. Let me know how it works out.

Edited by chris evans, 21 October 2006 - 10:53 PM.

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#3 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 10:13 AM

I often work with the Honda inverter series of generators. Yes they can strike an HMI. The inverter part of the genny balances the power to accomplish this. However, you do need to read the manuals. 1000w is the max this generator puts out, but it's consistent running output is lower. I can't remember what it is right now. Should whatever you plug into this spike, the genny can continue to run.

I've never used the EU1000i, EU2000i, or EU3000is in parallel. I did get to test an Arri 1200 par on the EU2000i and it held. It did suck a lot of fuel due to it running probably close to, if not at, max running output. Curious to see if it will work with the parallel set up.

Good luck. Let me know how it works out


Thanks Chris,

I may not get a chance right away to test using a 1200w HMI but I will let you know.

If my math is right, after striking, shouldn't a 1200w par (even an HMI) be drawing about
9.6 Amps in which case that wouldn't be close to maxing out a 2K generator?

If you're recording audio, have you been pleased with the ineverters noise levels? They're
advertised as being really quiet so I was surprised when I started them-louder than I thought.
I'm sure having them some distance away with a sound wall will be okay but still I was
surprised.
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#4 Daniel Madsen

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 03:01 PM

No, you have to account for inductance, making the current required a little bit more. Check out "The Lighting Technicians Handbook" by Harry Box. He talks about how to calculate power factor which takes the inductive qualities of HMIs into consideration. Overandout
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#5 timHealy

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 03:54 PM

This may may be a silly question, but why didn't you get the 2000 or even the 3000 watt unit if you knew you needed at least a 2k source?

We have been usuing the EM 7000 unit on a film right now. Not as quiet as the EU series but seems to be a decent machine. An oil sensor needed to be disabled for use on car rigs though.

Best

Tim
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#6 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 04:41 PM

The EU series are really good workhorses - and quiet too. You can run a 1.2K on the 2000 and then some (just make sure you strike the HMI with nothing else on) - I've used a couple of Kino's and a 1.2K myself without problem. And no flicker.
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#7 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 07:13 PM

(just make sure you strike the HMI with nothing else on)

i've had the opposite experience in a similar situation though. we regularly ran a 575 hmi and an 800w redhead on a 2k honda this summer, and if we plugged in the redhead while the hmi was on it died every time, but it worked just fine as long as the redhead went on first. this was a 575 and not a 1200 though, and 800w is a bit more than "and then some", but i just thought i'd share.

/matt
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#8 timHealy

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 08:43 PM

Your problem occurred was caused by a voltage drop. The generator was too small for keeping up with getting therespective lights on. It is easy to knock out an HMI when this happens. A tungsten light does not get knocked out in the way an HMI can. It is always best to use a generator that is larger than you need.

The same thing can happen if you have voltage dropping due to a cable run that is too far from the power source. Or if said cable is too small for that length.

best

Tim
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#9 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 22 October 2006 - 09:16 PM

This may may be a silly question, but why didn't you get the 2000 or even the 3000 watt unit if you knew you needed at least a 2k source?

We have been usuing the EM 7000 unit on a film right now. Not as quiet as the EU series but seems to be a decent machine. An oil sensor needed to be disabled for use on car rigs though.

Best

Tim


Not a silly question. Most of the time we'll benefit from having two 1k (and lighter weight)
generators that can work in different places and then for our occasional needs for a 2K
power supply, we have the parallell kit.

Thanks, everbody! Good book recommendation Dan, thanks.

EM 7000 seems like it must be pretty big. Was it riding on a Shotmaker? Why did the oil sensor
have to be disabled?
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#10 timHealy

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 03:56 AM

EM 7000 seems like it must be pretty big. Was it riding on a Shotmaker? Why did the oil sensor
have to be disabled?


It has been riding on a picture car in two forms. One picture car with a custom built steel tray on the back that attaches to the under carraige of the car. The second picture car is built around a Go Mobile chassis. They are stunt guys that have built a performance vehicle that can be adapted to any car for shooting. It has a cockpit that can be mounted to any part of the rig so that it appears as though an actor is driving but it is not. It allows for more interesting shooting and stunt work than a normal tow rig allows.

The oil sensor appears to shut down the generator when it senses no or low oil when it starts to slosh around in the pan. It only happens when using on moving vehicles. Some electrical friends who did Dukes of Hazard had the same issue.

Best

Tim
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#11 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 08:08 AM

Your problem occurred was caused by a voltage drop. The generator was too small for keeping up with getting therespective lights on.

yeah, that makes sense. there was a noticable voltage drop when we struck the hmi with the redhead on as well, it almost died completely, but as you say tungsten lights don't care. anyway, the solution to always turn them on in that correct order seemed like a better one than to get a bigger genny, though not optimal.

/matt
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#12 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 11:05 AM

It has been riding on a picture car in two forms. One picture car with a custom built steel tray on the back that attaches to the under carraige of the car. The second picture car is built around a Go Mobile chassis. They are stunt guys that have built a performance vehicle that can be adapted to any car for shooting. It has a cockpit that can be mounted to any part of the rig so that it appears as though an actor is driving but it is not. It allows for more interesting shooting and stunt work than a normal tow rig allows.

The oil sensor appears to shut down the generator when it senses no or low oil when it starts to slosh around in the pan. It only happens when using on moving vehicles. Some electrical friends who did Dukes of Hazard had the same issue.

Best

Tim


That is really good to know! I'm pretty scrupulous about mainatinence and checking oil
but if I have the generator(s) in a pick-up bed that's bouncing a bit the sensors may think
that there's less oil than is actualiy the case. Good tip. Thanks!
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#13 timHealy

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 08:17 PM

yeah, that makes sense. there was a noticable voltage drop when we struck the hmi with the redhead on as well, it almost died completely, but as you say tungsten lights don't care. anyway, the solution to always turn them on in that correct order seemed like a better one than to get a bigger genny, though not optimal.

/matt



I'm sorry you have it backwards. It is my opinion the solution is getting the right generator for the job, not the order in which one turns on lights.

Figuring the order of lights is what you do once you are at a job and one has no other recourse than to make due with what you have.

best

Tim

That is really good to know! I'm pretty scrupulous about mainatinence and checking oil
but if I have the generator(s) in a pick-up bed that's bouncing a bit the sensors may think
that there's less oil than is actualiy the case. Good tip. Thanks!


I don't think you have to worry unless you are doing serious stunt work. On the job that I am on now they are driving like 40 miles and hour on NYC streets. Perhaps a bit faster at times. The winters, volume of traffic, Con edison and Verizon construction crews really beat up the streets here. They are not built for such speeds so not only are the generators getting bounced around, two small soft suns were not able to take the pounding and two very expensive bulbs were lost. Think a chase scene like the one in "Bullet" with Steve McQueen which is also being done with a modern Ford Mustang.

Best

Tim
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#14 timHealy

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 08:53 PM

I found their website:

http://www.gostunts.com/gpv.php?id=275

You can see the work they did on the Dukes of Hazard and the General Lee. You can see a small putt putt on a shelf built off the rear of the vehicle. There are a bunch of photos and two videos on the site.

Best

Tim
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#15 Tim O'Connor

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 06:47 AM

I found their website:

http://www.gostunts.com/gpv.php?id=275

You can see the work they did on the Dukes of Hazard and the General Lee. You can see a small putt putt on a shelf built off the rear of the vehicle. There are a bunch of photos and two videos on the site.

Best

Tim


Great site but all those poor Chargers! I know a job's a job but I couldn't saw up ten
(or however many) beautiful muscle cars for that movie. I think the t.v. series killed around
TWO HUNDRED! That's two hundred and ten gearheads whose dreams will never come true.

Michaelangelo did less damage and he painted the Sistine Chapel.
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#16 Matt Sandstrom

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 08:37 AM

I'm sorry you have it backwards. It is my opinion the solution is getting the right generator for the job, not the order in which one turns on lights.

oh, i got your opinion just fine and in general i tend to agree. I was talking about the realities of our project this summer. Finding a new generator would have been hard and once we figured out the order that was the best solution. /matt
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