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FLICKER LA, Attack of the 50 Foot Reels Festival.


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#1 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 02:36 PM

First it was "LOST", now Super-8 threatens to take over the cinematic world as it is digitally projected at the Egyptian Theatre this November 6th, 2006 in Hollywood California.

http://www.flickerla.com/ Click on the "Attack of the 50 foot reels" Thumbnail for additional info.

This is the ONLY film festival in the entire world that caters ONLY to Super-8 films AND Digitally projected Super-8 films only. Nowhere else on the planet, at no other time during the year, does any other organization not named Flicker Digitally project Super-8 only films at a festival. (kind of sad there is only one).

To make it even more interesting, this is one of those "in camera edited" film contests in which the filmmakers actually submit one unprocessed film cartridge along with their soundtracks and these same filmmakers don't get to see their own films until the night of the screening. Yeesh.

I submitted a film this year called "To Profile, Monitor & Protect". I shot with 500T and shot my film at three different locations. 20 other filmmakers have also submitted their films. Each film runs either 2 minutes and 30 seconds (if shot at 24 frames per second) or 3 minutes and 20 seconds (if shot at 18 FPS.)

I used a digital frame counter on my Super-8 camera to try and keep on track with my pre-built soundtrack.
Hopefully the soundtrack will match up to the visuals. Anyone else out there in this year's flicker or plan on attending?
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#2 Fernando Morales

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 03:04 PM

Caro Alessandro:

I've recently submited my 50feet E64T cartridge for a spanish version of the "attack...":

http://www.tomaunica.com/

Super 8 is alive and getting well for spanish speakers also!

Check our forum, please:

http://tornemi.8.forumer.com/index.php

Cheers to all super 8 filmmakers!

In boca il lupo!
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#3 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 03:44 PM

Caro Alessandro:

I've recently submited my 50feet E64T cartridge for a spanish version of the "attack...":

http://www.tomaunica.com/

Super 8 is alive and getting well for spanish speakers also!

Check our forum, please:

http://tornemi.8.forumer.com/index.php

Cheers to all super 8 filmmakers!

In boca il lupo!


That's way cool. I noticed the Kodak logo.

Reversal film only?
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#4 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 10:19 PM

congratulations on the super8 festival alessandro! you are now a star! very kool

Posted Image




Full length, uncut?

Hmmm.

You realize all the films are short films, don't you?

Well, it was one full length, uncut cartridge of film.
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#5 Fernando Morales

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 11:57 AM

Hi, Alex

I guess reversal is easier, but it doesn't say anything about not submitting negative. You probably have to order a positive print with your process. The idea is to project all the reels and let the public decide which is the best one.

Best regards,

Morales
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#6 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 04:07 AM

Hi, Alex

I guess reversal is easier, but it doesn't say anything about not submitting negative. You probably have to order a positive print with your process. The idea is to project all the reels and let the public decide which is the best one.

Best regards,

Morales


I thought you had unhinged the claim I had made that Flicker is the only entity on the planet that actually shows Super-8 only and only projects it digitally. Looks like my claim is still valid.
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#7 Fernando Morales

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 09:46 AM

I thought you had unhinged the claim I had made that Flicker is the only entity on the planet that actually shows Super-8 only and only projects it digitally. Looks like my claim is still valid.


Of course, I wasn't questining your claim at all. It IS valid. I just wanted to add that there are similar ideas going on!

Best regards,

Morales
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#8 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 02:57 PM

Of course, I wasn't questining your claim at all. It IS valid. I just wanted to add that there are similar ideas going on!

Best regards,

Morales


No doubt that the in-camera edited super-8 festivals are popular all over the world. I can't see really putting an intense effort into one of these contests knowing that they'll be projecting the actual film original and most likely scratching it in the process. Plus, the sound probably won't be locked either.

If anyone doesn't think it's that big of deal check out the FlickerLA festival on November 6th at the Egyptian to see the power of a soundtrack blindly merged with digital projection.
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#9 Sean McHenry

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 07:48 PM

There is also the Straight 8 Festival. This one looks fun and has some interesting winners. Look up "Dog Years". These are a testament that you don't absolutly need sync sound. It works.

http://www.straight8.net/past.htm

Sean
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#10 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 09:01 PM

There is also the Straight 8 Festival. This one looks fun and has some interesting winners. Look up "Dog Years". These are a testament that you don't absolutly need sync sound. It works.

http://www.straight8.net/past.htm

Sean


I find it very disappointing since this is one of the most prestigious Super-8 events yet I think their rules absolutely stink.

http://www.straight8...ml/about_us.php

I'm at the whim of the projectionist and when they start my CD track in relation to the start of the film? I assume their projecting/destroying the film original at the screenings as well. But once again, it's a professional sponsoring the event and not willing to take it to the next level because it's only Super-8. Actually transferring the film to very high quality digital video and then laying the sound down onto the video copy, the way Norwood Cheek and Flicker LA does it, Would make the method Solid. Flicker LA also allows one to select a specific moment in the film to sync the sound to, another logical and progressive element that no one else in the world does when it comes to these in camera edited film contests.

But then they make a DVD AFTERWARDS????
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#11 Grant Wilkinson

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 09:14 AM

I find it very disappointing since this is one of the most prestigious Super-8 events yet I think their rules absolutely stink.

http://www.straight8...ml/about_us.php

I'm at the whim of the projectionist and when they start my CD track in relation to the start of the film? I assume their projecting/destroying the film original at the screenings as well. But once again, it's a professional sponsoring the event and not willing to take it to the next level because it's only Super-8. Actually transferring the film to very high quality digital video and then laying the sound down onto the video copy, the way Norwood Cheek and Flicker LA does it, Would make the method Solid. Flicker LA also allows one to select a specific moment in the film to sync the sound to, another logical and progressive element that no one else in the world does when it comes to these in camera edited film contests.

But then they make a DVD AFTERWARDS????



I think they may say 'at the whim of the projectionist' but I'm pretty sure they do it from some kind of transfer (don't know the details tho). the last one I did was perfectly matched for our film, tho that's a testament to our team and great note taking as much as their matching of music to the movie... ;)

I've done straight 8 a couple of times, and it's great fun. ed & ben run something getting people making films and seeing them on the big screen - some films are crappy n funny, others are technically jawdropping, and all shot on one reel...

my only problem with it is both times I've entered my camera's died during the shoot (first time was finger in the air meter reading, the second time was "The Great Canon 1014 Manual Aperture Foam Collapse")... but I will risk it one more time!
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#12 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 03:02 PM

I think they may say 'at the whim of the projectionist' but I'm pretty sure they do it from some kind of transfer (don't know the details tho). the last one I did was perfectly matched for our film, tho that's a testament to our team and great note taking as much as their matching of music to the movie... ;)

I've done straight 8 a couple of times, and it's great fun. ed & ben run something getting people making films and seeing them on the big screen - some films are crappy n funny, others are technically jawdropping, and all shot on one reel...

my only problem with it is both times I've entered my camera's died during the shoot (first time was finger in the air meter reading, the second time was "The Great Canon 1014 Manual Aperture Foam Collapse")... but I will risk it one more time!



I'd love more information. Are they actually film projecting the film original or can one request a film transfer to video and have the film digitally projected? Yes, I would be willing to pay more for this option.
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#13 Sean McHenry

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:20 PM

I have to say that here in Ohio, USA, digital projection has so far been limited to some rather bad projectors. Some of the AMC theaters here do digital projection but you can actually count the pixels on a 20+ foot wide screen from the back row. The molecular strucure of Silver Halide is so much tighter than the limited number of pixels the average digital projector can actually project.

Unless someone knows different, look at the simple math involved. if the projector is actually doing a horizontal resolution of 1280 pixels, that's almost 1/4" per pixel or 4 pixels per inch. That doesn't take into account the dismal contrast ratio or the actual number of displayable colors digital projection has compared to the latitude and color range of film. If you see much digital projection in it's current commonly installed condition, it pretty much sucks, in my opinion. And that's if the projectors are set up to display 1280 (HD). Most are set to other standardss and in fact, a DVD or any SD (Standard Def) video is reduced to 720x486 making the individual horizontal pixels actually .4" each on a 24 ft wide screen.

Remember the very first digital televisions - yeah, like that, only bigger.

They are pushing it further and further but you can still see the gradient banding you see in current "Digital" Plasma televisions, DLT and LCD projectors. I can say that I would rather have a good sized Plasma any day over any similarly priced projector of any technology. I used to sell several brands as a Broadcast equipment sales person with a good sized midwest company.

In a related note, we have clients at the post house where I work as an Engineer on my day job asking to please not use the (Famous brand name here) LCD HD monitor as the image sucks for critical focus and color. For broadcast video, we still need glass. Sony screwed the pooch on that one.

Anyway, projectors aren't the answer yet. DVDs have compression out thew wazoo as well. Nothing like degrading a really small image area with even more compression and artifacting and reducing the contrast and color space.

If people are worried about their originals ask for a second print. It will loose a bit but I believe you can get a second optical print using reversal?

Sean

Edited by Sean McHenry, 26 October 2006 - 11:25 PM.

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#14 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:08 AM

I have to say that here in Ohio, USA, digital projection has so far been limited to some rather bad projectors. Some of the AMC theaters here do digital projection but you can actually count the pixels on a 20+ foot wide screen from the back row. The molecular strucure of Silver Halide is so much tighter than the limited number of pixels the average digital projector can actually project.

Unless someone knows different, look at the simple math involved. if the projector is actually doing a horizontal resolution of 1280 pixels, that's almost 1/4" per pixel or 4 pixels per inch. That doesn't take into account the dismal contrast ratio or the actual number of displayable colors digital projection has compared to the latitude and color range of film. If you see much digital projection in it's current commonly installed condition, it pretty much sucks, in my opinion. And that's if the projectors are set up to display 1280 (HD). Most are set to other standardss and in fact, a DVD or any SD (Standard Def) video is reduced to 720x486 making the individual horizontal pixels actually .4" each on a 24 ft wide screen.

Remember the very first digital televisions - yeah, like that, only bigger.

They are pushing it further and further but you can still see the gradient banding you see in current "Digital" Plasma televisions, DLT and LCD projectors. I can say that I would rather have a good sized Plasma any day over any similarly priced projector of any technology. I used to sell several brands as a Broadcast equipment sales person with a good sized midwest company.

In a related note, we have clients at the post house where I work as an Engineer on my day job asking to please not use the (Famous brand name here) LCD HD monitor as the image sucks for critical focus and color. For broadcast video, we still need glass. Sony screwed the pooch on that one.

Anyway, projectors aren't the answer yet. DVDs have compression out thew wazoo as well. Nothing like degrading a really small image area with even more compression and artifacting and reducing the contrast and color space.

If people are worried about their originals ask for a second print. It will loose a bit but I believe you can get a second optical print using reversal?

Sean



I apologize for coming off as a digital projection advocate. I am not, only for Super-8 do I see digital projection as a valuable tool.
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#15 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 03 November 2006 - 04:54 PM

I have to say that here in Ohio, USA, digital projection has so far been limited to some rather bad projectors. Some of the AMC theaters here do digital projection but you can actually count the pixels on a 20+ foot wide screen from the back row. The molecular strucure of Silver Halide is so much tighter than the limited number of pixels the average digital projector can actually project.

Unless someone knows different, look at the simple math involved. if the projector is actually doing a horizontal resolution of 1280 pixels, that's almost 1/4" per pixel or 4 pixels per inch. That doesn't take into account the dismal contrast ratio or the actual number of displayable colors digital projection has compared to the latitude and color range of film. If you see much digital projection in it's current commonly installed condition, it pretty much sucks, in my opinion. And that's if the projectors are set up to display 1280 (HD). Most are set to other standardss and in fact, a DVD or any SD (Standard Def) video is reduced to 720x486 making the individual horizontal pixels actually .4" each on a 24 ft wide screen.

Sean


In past years the Flicker Attack of the Fifty Foot Reels film festival has been digitally projecting super-8 film that has been transferred to betacam sp and the results seem to surpass what you have been seeing in Ohio. The 6th Annual Flicker festival is this coming Monday (Nov.6 at the Egyptian theatre) and once again this is an opportunity to evalute how different super-8 stocks look like when projected on too a large screen.

The Black and White Film stocks should look phenomenal, I have no idea what to expect from my 500T, yikes! I am a bit worried that if the inevitable process of "progressing" from Betacam Sp to mini-dv has caught up with the flicker fest the 5-1 compression may result in quality drop off that is not of the film's doing.
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#16 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 07:25 PM

Just thought I'd do one more bump. The screening is about three hours from now.
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#17 Gary Lemson

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 11:11 AM

We need a Flickerfest in the Bay Area.
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