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Big format problem!


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#1 Ricardo Diaz

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 10:48 PM

So I have been asked to shoot a title sequence for a film shot 3perf Super 35/2.35. The problem is I have been given an arri 35-3 standard 35mm to shoot with. I am in Texas. So my first question is how do I get the proper frame without turing the camera to super35 and recentering the optics. If that is my only option does anyone know of someone here in Texas like Texcam or MPS who can do it. Or would it just be easier to rent another camera altogther? The problem is that the producers are getting the camera for free from a local University and dont want to pay for a rental. Please help me out as this is my first foray into S35. Thanks.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 11:31 PM

This "free" camera will cost them extra time and money in post from dealing with a mix of 4-perf and 3-perf footage, so it may behoove them to get a 3-perf Super-35 camera. On the other hand, if it is for a title sequence anyway, it may be scanned, the titles added digitally by an outside company, and delivered back in a format that matches the rest of the production material.
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#3 Jon Kukla

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 02:51 PM

Short answer - ask them if they can run the workflow through their post team, because there may be hidden costs/problems as discussed. If the post-production supervisor or editor signs off on it, ultimately it's their problem, since they both signed off on it and have to deal with it at the end of the day. You are right to mention the potential problems, but if the producer refuses to consider the matter or run it through other techs, you at least have CYA (Covered Your [fill in the blank]).

Edited by Jon Kukla, 24 October 2006 - 02:51 PM.

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#4 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 01:27 PM

Not very helpful here, but I must say it's beyond me why there still exists cameras that only shoot Normal 35. Whenever I hear that, I immediatley lose faith in such rental houses - what, they're camera hasn't been out on a job since 1988?
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#5 Jon Kukla

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 02:25 PM

Not very helpful here, but I must say it's beyond me why there still exists cameras that only shoot Normal 35. Whenever I hear that, I immediatley lose faith in such rental houses - what, they're camera hasn't been out on a job since 1988?


What's so crazy about having R35 cameras in stock? Anything going back out to film that is most easily shot without any opticals or DI - namely anamorphic and 1.85 productions - would want it. Did you mean 3-perf R35 cameras?

Anyway, from what was said, it looks like this isn't coming from a rental house so...shrug. You get what you pay for, I guess. The other problem that might occur is that while you theoretically can shoot silent gate on an R35 camera with primes, the lenses might not fully cover the extra area on the side. Ricardo, do you think they figure that they can extract a S2.35 frame anyway, and that's why they're so badly economizing?
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#6 Max Jacoby

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 04:25 PM

With older cameras like the Arri 3 isn't the change-over to Super 35 a permanent one or can they be adapted to switch back between Super and Regular 35?

Since they got this camera from a local university, I doubt that the school would change it to Super 35 for he benefict of their students.
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#7 Ricardo Diaz

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:05 PM

Thank you everyone for the response and feedback. The solution that i have come to with the advice from the original DoP and all your help is to simply shoot a framechart. Panavision Dallas is sending a Super35 2.40 groundglass that we will place in the camera. Unfortunately it is oversized so i wont be able to see the left frame edge but the gentleman James Finn (Panie Dallas) said that it is not to far from where it cuts off. Then we shoot a frame chart letting the transfer house know what my frame is top and bottom and right side. Then they will extract the 2.40 in post. Yes we will loose a lil image quality due to the smaller neg area but its the only option that the producers are willing to spend. Please guys any feedback, comments, warnings, or notes you would like to give me would be really appreciated.

To answer you question Jon yes they figure they can extract the 2.40 in post. Apparently they shot two or three pick ups a month ago with the camera and simply extracted it from the R35 frame. Unfortunately you can tell that the framing in those shots were botched and cropped that they cut off important details due to framing it with the 1.85 groundglass. The production is desperately trying to pinch pennies at this point its clear. The original DoP has MORE than enough pull to get all the proper equipment from Panie Dallas for free if he wanted but for whatever reason they went with, well, me. I imagine to pinch ALOT of pennies. Anyway I hope to do the film and DoP justice by turning in great pieces.


And yes Max the school is not likely to switch the camera to S35. It was discussed and was promptly shot down by their department. Understandable as it is their sole MOS 35mm camera. Because of that its booked throughout the semester and cant take it away from students who are shooting their films so they can upgrade it.

Thanks again guys,
Rick
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#8 Jon Kukla

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 03:12 PM

Well, I wish you luck! :D Don't forget that a S35 2.40 ground glass that is used with an R35 neg will actually mean that it's framing for a smaller ratio after you cut off the soundtrack space, so be aware that the 2.40 extraction from the R35 will actually be even shorter than whatever the S35 ground glass is showing you. Again, you might want to check to make certain that the GG is S35 2.40 and that the extraction will definitely be R35 2.40, not S35. To confuse matters further, as I stated before, even most R35 cameras are still full silent gate (S35 width). :blink:
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#9 Stephen Williams

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Posted 28 October 2006 - 02:01 AM

With older cameras like the Arri 3 isn't the change-over to Super 35 a permanent one or can they be adapted to switch back between Super and Regular 35?


Hi,

If you re-center the lens on an Arri III some lenses will hit the mirror! Best to leave the lens mount where it is. Only primes can be used. The viewfinder also has to be modified to see the full S35 area.

Stephen
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