Jump to content


Photo

First Outdoor Framegrab


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#1 Gavin Greenwalt

Gavin Greenwalt
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 225 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 06:23 AM

More prototype testing this time outdoors. Kind of. Looks like it's a beautiful cloudy day, but it is outside.

http://www.dvxuser.c...ead.php?t=76605
  • 0

#2 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 07:06 AM

I'd rather they show a pic taken when the sun is out, to get an idea how this camera handles contrast. A low-con pic like this is not very telling.
  • 0

#3 Arni Heimir

Arni Heimir
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 326 posts
  • Other
  • Reykjavik/Barcelona

Posted 31 October 2006 - 09:21 AM

It looks good. But I am interested what will happen after Oct 31 (today) for those who are interest in purchasing the camera. will the price increase or the delivery be much later?
  • 0

#4 Keith Mottram

Keith Mottram
  • Sustaining Members
  • 824 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 10:47 AM

As Max says this gives no indication of highlight handling and thats it, flat lighting demonstrates nothing more than studio. plus is it just me or does anyone else feel a small lump of vomit move up their windpipe everytime they go on that site... "that lens might be okay, but it will never measure up to the cheaper, lighter and optically superior red lens", "every production needs a 300mm lens, but no one realised it before Jim gave us this fantastic opertunity", "thanks Jim, your gorgeous", "please Jim I promise I'll swallow" etc...
  • 0

#5 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:16 AM

Anyone have idea why the milk bottle is soft , whilst face is sharp, when both seem to be on the same plane ?? John Holland ,London.
  • 0

#6 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:30 AM

Anyone have idea why the milk bottle is soft , whilst face is sharp, when both seem to be on the same plane ?? John Holland ,London.


the common filmmaker uses the term motionblur to describe the softened look which moving objects have when not being static while being shot.
  • 0

#7 Tim Terner

Tim Terner
  • Sustaining Members
  • 340 posts
  • Producer
  • Prague, CZ

Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:42 AM

Perhaps the light conditions don't allow the full latitude of the camera to be displayed but the image certainly looks very very good
  • 0

#8 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:45 AM

As Max says this gives no indication of highlight handling and thats it, flat lighting demonstrates nothing more than studio.

aha. sir, i beg to differ. in comparing this shot to the results of our arri 35 and sony cinealta i can see:
- amount of grain/noise. excellent, almost none.
- DOF: 35mm.
- color reproduction & tonal balance. this is crucial for digital cinematography. good skins, everything in order here.
- lattitude. look below the bus, you will see lots of different details in the shadow levels. the shadow of the tire over the bus shadow. experienced eyes would conclude some things...
- lenses. the absence of lumatic and chromatic aberrations tell me that we have some good glass in front of frankenred.
- much other things.

ccould it be that you have a negative bias?

plus is it just me or does anyone else feel a small lump of vomit move up their windpipe everytime they go on that site...

Hm, no, but then i don´t have so many aggressions. do you often have "a small lump of vomit move up your windpipe "?

"that lens might be okay, but it will never measure up to the cheaper, lighter and optically superior red lens", "every production needs a 300mm lens, but no one realised it before Jim gave us this fantastic opertunity", "thanks Jim, your gorgeous", "please Jim I promise I'll swallow" etc...

i suppose that hostile comments as this one are one of the main reasons for many filmmakers of not frequenting this board often anymore .
  • 0

#9 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:55 AM

Dont think thats motion blur .John Holland ,London
  • 0

#10 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:58 AM

aha. sir, i beg to differ. in comparing this shot to the results of our arri 35 and sony cinealta i can see:
- amount of grain/noise. excellent, almost none.
- DOF: 35mm.
- color reproduction & tonal balance. this is crucial for digital cinematography. good skins, everything in order here.
- lattitude. look below the bus, you will see lots of different details in the shadow levels. the shadow of the tire over the bus shadow. experienced eyes would conclude some things...
- lenses. the absence of lumatic and chromatic aberrations tell me that we have some good glass in front of frankenred.
- much other things.

The point is that this image does not reveal anything more than what was already visible at the IBC screening. One certainly would wish that they had shot under sone more challenging lighting conditions.
  • 0

#11 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11944 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:06 PM

Hi,

The left side of the bottle is clipped, as is the top of the scrunched-up paper.

It's fine, but it's nothing particularly special. I think that's really all people are saying. Fine. But not special.

Phil
  • 0

#12 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:09 PM

Dont think thats motion blur .John Holland ,London


if you rule out dof & mb, what else should it be?
  • 0

#13 John Holland

John Holland
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2250 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London England

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:14 PM

I dont know that is why i asked ??? John Holland ,London.
  • 0

#14 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:20 PM

The point is that this image does not reveal anything more than what was already visible at the IBC screening.

besides small details that this shot uses natural daylight and the IBC shot were artificial light...

One certainly would wish that they had shot under some more challenging lighting conditions.

no hurry. when they can keep in their schedule (which IMHO would be another small miracle) there will be ~20 prototypes end of the year.

btw: the IBC shots, especially the porsche with arri in front of it, are somewhat challenging. you can download them at www.red.com.




I dont know that is why i asked ??? John Holland ,London.


why do you rule out the obvious? :)

Edited by jan von krogh, 31 October 2006 - 12:20 PM.

  • 0

#15 Graeme Nattress

Graeme Nattress
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 145 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:24 PM

If you open up the JPEG in photoshop and examine the values of the regions you describe as being clipped, I think you'll find that a) they're not clipped and B) by adjusting the black level, you'll find that they're still holding detail.
  • 0

#16 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:29 PM

It looks good. But I am interested what will happen after Oct 31 (today) for those who are interest in purchasing the camera. will the price increase or the delivery be much later?


they won´t take orders until ~april 2007 from there on. They hinted that reservation holders will get additional benefits, but nothing very important - "nothing which would force you into ordering while the reservation time".

btw, they were at 700-800 orders last week. many of the large rental houses like otto nemenz ordered the maximum of 5, we will only get 2 - if they ship :)





If you open up the JPEG in photoshop and examine the values of the regions you describe as being clipped, I think you'll find that a) they're not clipped and B) by adjusting the black level, you'll find that they're still holding detail.


the discreet systems, tektronix measurement and class 1 709 monitor here confirm this :)
  • 0

#17 Max Jacoby

Max Jacoby
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2955 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:36 PM

besides small details that this shot uses natural daylight and the IBC shot were artificial light...

So that tells me that they either used a filter or adjusted the color-temperature in post. Just like with any other film or video cameras as well...
  • 0

#18 Keith Mottram

Keith Mottram
  • Sustaining Members
  • 824 posts
  • Other

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:47 PM

If you open up the JPEG in photoshop and examine the values of the regions you describe as being clipped, I think you'll find that a) they're not clipped and B) by adjusting the black level, you'll find that they're still holding detail.


Okay done that and now in an extremely illogical thread jump can you shed any light on whats happening with Final Touch please...
  • 0

#19 jan von krogh

jan von krogh
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 454 posts
  • Producer

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:54 PM

So that tells me that they either used a filter or adjusted the color-temperature in post. Just like with any other film or video cameras as well...


you are speaking in riddles. do you refer to the studio or outside shots?

however, if you would read; mr. jannard wrote when publishing the image : "No dead pixel correction, no noise reduction, no sharpening, no Photoshop tweaking... straight out of REDCINE."
  • 0

#20 Chad Stockfleth

Chad Stockfleth
  • Sustaining Members
  • 622 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Louisville, KY

Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:57 PM

As Max says this gives no indication of highlight handling and thats it, flat lighting demonstrates nothing more than studio. plus is it just me or does anyone else feel a small lump of vomit move up their windpipe everytime they go on that site... "that lens might be okay, but it will never measure up to the cheaper, lighter and optically superior red lens", "every production needs a 300mm lens, but no one realised it before Jim gave us this fantastic opertunity", "thanks Jim, your gorgeous", "please Jim I promise I'll swallow" etc...


Seems that their site is overly flattering while ours is overly critical. Personally I'd rather be on the critical site, though some people could be nicer about it.

Framegrab looks ok. I'm with Max that we need a high contrast shot. The milk still looks over exposed.
  • 0


Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

The Slider

CineTape

Opal

Wooden Camera

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Opal

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS