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Next Duffus to ask about 24p


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#1 Dave Bailey

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 12:30 AM

I hate this , no oher way around it. I am buying av dvx100b . I ve seen the whole debate and I still dont get it.I'm shooting a music video . I had been shooting with simple sony camcorders. But I wanted that film look.I use adobe pre. 6.5 . I plan on experimenting but where should I start?

I have been so excited to start filming in 24p.Whats the easiest setting for camera and Adobe . I plan on eventulay saving the video to DVD . Will Adobe edit in pure 24p or is this whole debate senseless .Like I said I had been shooting with small Sony Camcorders .But I really want that soft film look.

I know this question has been answerd a millon an one times . Just lookin for a little hand holding .
Heres what Ive done so far .

Any help a nice starting point would be nice.

http://vids.myspace....eoid=1013594267
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#2 Allen Achterberg

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:08 AM

I hate this , no oher way around it. I am buying av dvx100b . I ve seen the whole debate and I still dont get it.I'm shooting a music video . I had been shooting with simple sony camcorders. But I wanted that film look.I use adobe pre. 6.5 . I plan on experimenting but where should I start?

I have been so excited to start filming in 24p.Whats the easiest setting for camera and Adobe . I plan on eventulay saving the video to DVD . Will Adobe edit in pure 24p or is this whole debate senseless .Like I said I had been shooting with small Sony Camcorders .But I really want that soft film look.

I know this question has been answerd a millon an one times . Just lookin for a little hand holding .
Heres what Ive done so far .

Any help a nice starting point would be nice.

http://vids.myspace....eoid=1013594267



dvx wont give you a "Soft film look"
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#3 David Sweetman

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:49 AM

I assume you're just finishing offline, in which case you don't want "pure 24p." Anyway the dvx does not shoot true 24p but I believe 23.967p, and in order to get to 29.97 fps for the DVD you'll follow a 3:2 pulldown, which really just duplicates frames to make 6 extra frames each second. You'll still have the 24 fps motion, but you'll view the results off the dvd at 30 fps.

Editing in true 24 fps would be smart if you were either conforming an online or doing a film-out. An online can get messed up if effects and transitions utilize frames that have been fabricated in order to turn 24 fps into 30 fps.

If you really want that "film look," it's best to shoot on film. The dvx does a few things to mimic qualities associated with film, but it does not look like film.

--by the way, does the dvx even roll 23.967 to the miniDV tape, or does it go through the pulldown before it puts the image on the tape?

Edited by David Sweetman, 08 November 2006 - 02:50 AM.

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#4 Allen Achterberg

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 03:05 AM

I assume you're just finishing offline, in which case you don't want "pure 24p." Anyway the dvx does not shoot true 24p but I believe 23.967p, and in order to get to 29.97 fps for the DVD you'll follow a 3:2 pulldown, which really just duplicates frames to make 6 extra frames each second. You'll still have the 24 fps motion, but you'll view the results off the dvd at 30 fps.

Editing in true 24 fps would be smart if you were either conforming an online or doing a film-out. An online can get messed up if effects and transitions utilize frames that have been fabricated in order to turn 24 fps into 30 fps.

If you really want that "film look," it's best to shoot on film. The dvx does a few things to mimic qualities associated with film, but it does not look like film.

--by the way, does the dvx even roll 23.967 to the miniDV tape, or does it go through the pulldown before it puts the image on the tape?


Either way you slice it, on the miniDV tape the frame rate is always 29.97fps, the pull down is added to do this. When shooting in 24PA 2:3:3:2 is used, when you capture the NLE removes the extra frames the pulldown created to give you 23.98 (24P)

I'd always edit in 24P to make sure anything added in post matches the motion. Then do the pulldown in AE or your program you use to convert it for DVD, I use procoder2 which allows me to add the pulldown from 24PN source Material.

Good Luck
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#5 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 06:22 AM

Hi,

> in order to get to 29.97 fps for the DVD you'll follow a 3:2 pulldown

Not so. NTSC DVDs can include 24p material and the player will insert the pulldown for you; this is a much better use of space on the disc.

Very few music videos seem to do it this way, but it's the correct way to handle 24fps material on an NTSC DVD.

Phil
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#6 Dave Bailey

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 07:38 AM

What if I went with the Sony HVR-A1? Would this be the better camera ? As appossed to the
Pan Ag DVX100B. Any major draw backs to the Sony ?
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#7 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 10:23 AM

Can't answer your question, but you are supposed to use your real name on this site.
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#8 David Sweetman

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:00 PM

Not so. NTSC DVDs can include 24p material and the player will insert the pulldown for you; this is a much better use of space on the disc.

Phil,
Is this how most NTSC 24p feature film DVDs are done? That's pretty smart, an extra second of space evey four seconds. But is it fool-proof; I mean are there dvd players that don't do this?

Edited by David Sweetman, 08 November 2006 - 02:01 PM.

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#9 Chance Shirley

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 02:14 PM

But is it fool-proof; I mean are there dvd players that don't do this?


As far as I know, the "24p" encoding is part of the MPEG-2 standard and, therefore, readable by all DVD players.
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