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#1 james donovan

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:03 PM

Hi, I was just wondering what the difference was with the German and French circuit/electronics on these cameras? Is the German version better over the French? Thanks
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#2 Tim Carroll

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:07 PM

Hi, I was just wondering what the difference was with the German and French circuit/electronics on these cameras? Is the German version better over the French? Thanks


The German motor and electronics are definitely considered better than the French. The first Arriflex 16SR cameras were equipped with the French versions.

I am not sure that the French stuff was less reliable, but I do know that parts are pretty much no longer available for the French motor and electronics, where as the German parts are still readily available.

If you have a chance to buy one or the other, get the one with the German motor and electronics.

-Tim
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#3 james donovan

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 06:13 PM

The German motor and electronics are definitely considered better than the French. The first Arriflex 16SR cameras were equipped with the French versions.

I am not sure that the French stuff was less reliable, but I do know that parts are pretty much no longer available for the French motor and electronics, where as the German parts are still readily available.

If you have a chance to buy one or the other, get the one with the German motor and electronics.

-Tim



Hi Tim, I enquired about service on the arri s that was available in the uk and i talked to the big "Arriflex" company in London. wow, big difference in price, i think it would be cheaper to ship it out to you! and I also tried another company but it was alot cheaper. i asked them whether they used the factory lubricants but they didnt get back to me, so i assume they don't. Is it really important to have the custom oils? Thanks for your time,
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#4 Tim Carroll

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Posted 11 November 2006 - 07:18 PM

Is it really important to have the custom oils? Thanks for your time,


Damo,

It is really important to use the original ARRI factory lubricants on the Arriflex 16S, S/B and St because they were specially formulated to work with the materials the Germans used in making the camera. The cameras contain gears made from a fibre composite material and the ARRI grease absorbs into this material in a very specific way, giving protection from wear and proper lubrication. White lithium grease or other more common greases will not do this, and the gears will be left unprotected, which makes them wear much faster. There is also Chronosynth which is a very specific viscosity oil that is used throughout the camera, it is heavier than say 3-in-1 oil, but lighter than some of the heavier oils. Again, it is made very specifically for the steels, aluminums and brasses contained in the camera. There is a specific formula of molykote that is used in the movement of the camera. It is made by blending a specific molykote with Chronosynth, and it is used in the pulldown claw pivot and the registration pin pivot. Alot of shops will just use a graphite lubricant here because the molykote/Chronosynth combination looks like a graphite lubricant, but graphite will not cling to the brass and steel like the molykote will.

Like I said, the ARRI factory spent decades building and refining the Arriflex 16S cameras, and they chose the lubricants for very specific and sometimes very complex reasons. The reason many shops don't use the original ARRI lubricants, on the other hand, is very simple, it is expensive and hard to come by. But it is the only thing that will protect and lubricate your camera the way the factory intended, and it is the only lubrications we use in rebuilding your camera and setting it back to factory original specs.

Hope that helps,
-Tim
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#5 chuck colburn

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 01:49 PM

Damo,

It is really important to use the original ARRI factory lubricants on the Arriflex 16S, S/B and St because they were specially formulated to work with the materials the Germans used in making the camera. The cameras contain gears made from a fibre composite material and the ARRI grease absorbs into this material in a very specific way, giving protection from wear and proper lubrication. White lithium grease or other more common greases will not do this, and the gears will be left unprotected, which makes them wear much faster. There is also Chronosynth which is a very specific viscosity oil that is used throughout the camera, it is heavier than say 3-in-1 oil, but lighter than some of the heavier oils. Again, it is made very specifically for the steels, aluminums and brasses contained in the camera. There is a specific formula of molykote that is used in the movement of the camera. It is made by blending a specific molykote with Chronosynth, and it is used in the pulldown claw pivot and the registration pin pivot. Alot of shops will just use a graphite lubricant here because the molykote/Chronosynth combination looks like a graphite lubricant, but graphite will not cling to the brass and steel like the molykote will.

Like I said, the ARRI factory spent decades building and refining the Arriflex 16S cameras, and they chose the lubricants for very specific and sometimes very complex reasons. The reason many shops don't use the original ARRI lubricants, on the other hand, is very simple, it is expensive and hard to come by. But it is the only thing that will protect and lubricate your camera the way the factory intended, and it is the only lubrications we use in rebuilding your camera and setting it back to factory original specs.

Hope that helps,
-Tim



Good morning all.

I thought I would toss in my two cents here in redards to camera lubrication. I serviced, overhauled and built motion picture cameras and optics for just over thirty years. I worked with some of the best techs in Hollywood, Chris Condon, Jimmy Beaumonte, Ed DiGuiliou etc. and in that time the only lubes we ever use were the greases and oils made by Losoid (german I believe). So after thousands oof lenses and hundreds of cameras including every thing from a 16mm Filmo to the 65mm Showscan cameras running at 60f.p.s. standard frame rate without a failure due to lubrication I feel confident enough to say that these lubricants are comsiderd the standard in the industry. I'm not saying that the lubes recommended by Arri or any other manufactuer are in any way inferior, just that they are not mandantory. The three main greases we used were 33B for movement gearing, Arri phenolic pull down claws and most prime amd zoom lens rotating and sliding surfaces. BBR-1 for ball bearings an #70 for areas requiring a heavier viscosity lube. The two oils were the standard camera and the hi-speed types. At one point I maintained all the cameras and lenses for the UCLA film school for over five years straight. So I know from experience how these lubes work on particular cameras and lenses on a long term basis.
Anyhow as I said, just the two-cents of an old camera tech.

Cheers, Chuck Colburn
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#6 Tim Carroll

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 02:21 PM

Good morning all.

I thought I would toss in my two cents here in redards to camera lubrication. I serviced, overhauled and built motion picture cameras and optics for just over thirty years. I worked with some of the best techs in Hollywood, Chris Condon, Jimmy Beaumonte, Ed DiGuiliou etc. and in that time the only lubes we ever use were the greases and oils made by Losoid (german I believe). So after thousands oof lenses and hundreds of cameras including every thing from a 16mm Filmo to the 65mm Showscan cameras running at 60f.p.s. standard frame rate without a failure due to lubrication I feel confident enough to say that these lubricants are comsiderd the standard in the industry. I'm not saying that the lubes recommended by Arri or any other manufactuer are in any way inferior, just that they are not mandantory. The three main greases we used were 33B for movement gearing, Arri phenolic pull down claws and most prime amd zoom lens rotating and sliding surfaces. BBR-1 for ball bearings an #70 for areas requiring a heavier viscosity lube. The two oils were the standard camera and the hi-speed types. At one point I maintained all the cameras and lenses for the UCLA film school for over five years straight. So I know from experience how these lubes work on particular cameras and lenses on a long term basis.
Anyhow as I said, just the two-cents of an old camera tech.

Cheers, Chuck Colburn


So Chuck, what did you use on the pulldown pivot and registration pin pivot of the Arriflex 16S instead of the molykote/chronosynth combination?

-Tim
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#7 chuck colburn

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 02:51 PM

[quote name='Tim Carroll' date='Nov 12 2006, 11:21 AM' post='137737']
So Chuck, what did you use on the pulldown pivot and registration pin pivot of the Arriflex 16S instead of the molykote/chronosynth combination?

-Tim

Good morning Tim.

On the 16s reg pin and poll down claw we used rhe 33B lube, on the fibre gearing the BBR-1

Chuck
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#8 Tim Carroll

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 04:25 PM

"Good morning Tim.

On the 16s reg pin and poll down claw we used rhe 33B lube, on the fibre gearing the BBR-1

Chuck"

Chuck,

We're gonna have to respectfully disagree. I don't know the Losoid line of products, and maybe they are the German company that makes the ARRI lubricants, I don't know.

What I do know is that being trained by Mr. Broda, who built the Arriflex 16S cameras in the factory in Germany, I was taught to only use the specific lubricants the cameras were designed for (for the reasons I stated above). And having repaired a number of Arriflex 16S cameras where the grease on the fibre gears was not ARRI grease, and the wear on those fibre gears was excessive to the point where they needed to be replaced, I believe what I was taught to be true.

Again, you have alot more experience on many different cameras than I do, so I will respect your views. And I will continue to rebuild the Arriflex 16S cameras as I was taught, using only the original ARRI lubricants.

Have a great day and thanks for the information,
-Tim
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#9 chuck colburn

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 05:51 PM

"Good morning Tim.

On the 16s reg pin and poll down claw we used rhe 33B lube, on the fibre gearing the BBR-1

Chuck"

Chuck,

We're gonna have to respectfully disagree. I don't know the Losoid line of products, and maybe they are the German company that makes the ARRI lubricants, I don't know.

What I do know is that being trained by Mr. Broda, who built the Arriflex 16S cameras in the factory in Germany, I was taught to only use the specific lubricants the cameras were designed for (for the reasons I stated above). And having repaired a number of Arriflex 16S cameras where the grease on the fibre gears was not ARRI grease, and the wear on those fibre gears was excessive to the point where they needed to be replaced, I believe what I was taught to be true.

Again, you have alot more experience on many different cameras than I do, so I will respect your views. And I will continue to rebuild the Arriflex 16S cameras as I was taught, using only the original ARRI lubricants.

Have a great day and thanks for the information,
-Tim


Hey Tim,

Absolutly use the Arri lubes since you have access to them. Way back when, the only lube one could get from Arri was a little squeeze tube of grease meant for lubing the pull down claw on the 2C cameras. As for Mr. Broda, I have only the highest respect for Axle and for anyone else who was factory trained at any manufactures plant.

Regards,
Chuck
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#10 chuck colburn

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 02:53 PM

"Good morning Tim.

On the 16s reg pin and poll down claw we used rhe 33B lube, on the fibre gearing the BBR-1

Chuck"

Chuck,

We're gonna have to respectfully disagree. I don't know the Losoid line of products, and maybe they are the German company that makes the ARRI lubricants, I don't know.

What I do know is that being trained by Mr. Broda, who built the Arriflex 16S cameras in the factory in Germany, I was taught to only use the specific lubricants the cameras were designed for (for the reasons I stated above). And having repaired a number of Arriflex 16S cameras where the grease on the fibre gears was not ARRI grease, and the wear on those fibre gears was excessive to the point where they needed to be replaced, I believe what I was taught to be true.

Again, you have alot more experience on many different cameras than I do, so I will respect your views. And I will continue to rebuild the Arriflex 16S cameras as I was taught, using only the original ARRI lubricants.

Have a great day and thanks for the information,
-Tim


Hey Tim!

Being a camera tech I thought you might like this site.

http://www.molyduval.org/

Chuck
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#11 Tim Carroll

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 03:00 PM

Thanks Chuck. Great resource.

It's got the place where I buy the molykote from, and I use the CRC stuff on Arriflex 16SR's. Would love to find a place that makes Chronosynth, as that stuff is about the price of liquid gold when I have to buy it from ARRI.

Thanks,
-Tim
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