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#1 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 12 November 2006 - 04:14 PM

What years did the Kinor 35mm cameras suffer from week electronic componates, specifically did the 1988 Kinor 35H have the week electronics in them? I know the later years where much less problematic, about what year were they changed over? Thanks B)
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#2 Ian Dudley

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 01:51 PM

What years did the Kinor 35mm cameras suffer from week electronic componates, specifically did the 1988 Kinor 35H have the week electronics in them? I know the later years where much less problematic, about what year were they changed over? Thanks B)


I can't speak for others, but my 1988 Kinor 35H has been trouble free so far. I've heard rumors about certain bad years of production in the FSU, such as 88,89 as the Soviet Union collapsed, but have yet to substantiate them. I think it has much more to do with how the gear (any gear) was stored and maintained over the years. Often there cameras have been sitting on dusty damp shelves for decades before being sold so one must take special care to have them checked out thoroughly before relying on them.

I know the Russians gradually updated the electronics over the years of production, but I can't tell you when or what the changes were.

cheers,

Ian
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#3 Ian Dudley

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 02:12 PM

What years did the Kinor 35mm cameras suffer from week electronic componates, specifically did the 1988 Kinor 35H have the week electronics in them? I know the later years where much less problematic, about what year were they changed over? Thanks B)


I can't speak for others, but my 1988 Kinor 35H has been trouble free so far. I've heard rumors about certain bad years of production in the FSU, such as 88,89 as the Soviet Union collapsed, but have yet to substantiate them. I think it has much more to do with how the gear (any gear) was stored and maintained over the years. Often there cameras have been sitting on dusty damp shelves for decades before being sold so one must take special care to have them checked out thoroughly before relying on them.

I know the Russians gradually updated the electronics over the years of production, but I can't tell you when or what the changes were. BTW, you can have all 35H and C electronics updated by Solid Entertainment in Sweden.

cheers,

Ian

Here she is:

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#4 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 11:51 PM

NICE SETUP! Love the gear head. I'll bet you THAT cost almost as much as the camera package :D
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#5 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 12:59 AM

Do you know what you have to change or do, if anything, to the 35H if your going to use aimorphic lenses? What does the electonics upgrade cost?

Edited by James Steven Beverly, 14 November 2006 - 01:02 AM.

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#6 Ian Dudley

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:01 AM

Do you know what you have to change or do, if anything, to the 35H if your going to use aimorphic lenses? What does the electonics upgrade cost?


Hi,

To shoot scope you'll need the anamorphic gate, groundglass and viewfinder (assumming you have the optics too). I actually saw a set up on Ebay a while back. It went very fast.

The electronics upgrade I believe is around 3500.00.

I've shot a little anamorphic with my Konvas, but not the Kinor yet. My scope lenses won't fit on the Kinor.

Best,

Ian
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#7 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 04:00 PM

I was doing a little research on the Kinor last night and saw a few pics of you with for camera shooting some guy in a wheelchair. Very cool. Is there a problem with the battery plug on these things or is it a standard 4 pin XLR setup. I've got a battery belt that uses a regular 4pin plug (it was bought for my GY-500 video camera), and has for the battery, I believe, a large 12 volt motorcycle sealed battery. It will pwer my JVC all day long like it was nothing, but I read that this thing uses a 16 volt battery. Does that mean the 12 volt (Which is actually probably 14 volts out) won't run this thing? I had also read where a guy had to build a 4 pin plug for his and changed out the commie fuse holder for a yankee one because he said you would never be able to find the commie fuses (although I fould them right awat ay the RAFCAMERA site), which make me a little concerned. I am deathly afraid of screwing up the electronics in this camera and at this point in time DON'T have an extra 35 hundred bucks to change them over to western style stuff although that is something I will probably do in the future. Also, I saw a photo that said the Russian power supply could be changed over to 110 volts, Do you know anything about this. Does it affect he crystal sync on the Russian controller? Sorry for all the questions, but what I don't know about commiecams, would fill a library and although there a lot out there for Konvas' (I also own a 1m reostate one), the Kinors have far less info availible. So I figure ask someone how's already running one. Hope you don't mind. B)
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#8 Bruce McNaughton

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 02:39 AM

The electronics upgrade I believe is around 3500.00


Hi

Our 5000 crystal speed Kinor electronics package is priced at $USD2,500.

See it at http://www.kinor.arandafilm.com.au

We also offer a 2 perf conversion for this popular camera for $USD5,500 and conversions and 5000 electronics for most cameras

Regards

Bruce
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#9 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 03:08 AM

Yeah, I checked out your camera in my surfing last night. Pretty cool. I'll probably stick with the 4 perf setup for now as I already own the equipment to do my own processing, printing and old school for editing (IE flatbed w/ trim-bin and splicer etc) but I AM interested in updating the electronics at some point so I'll keep your site bookmarked. How does your stuff stack up against the Swedish stuff and do you offer any discounts? B)
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#10 Sean Morris

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 09:37 AM

How does your stuff stack up against the Swedish stuff and do you offer any discounts? B)


James, :D

Bruce has updated my Kinor to the new 5000 electronics, and has also
Hardfronted a ARRI IIC for me, fixed a Konvas, machined a new OCT
mount, resprayed, re-furbished my Kinor etc..and many, many more
small & large fiddly and complex jobs.

I can tell you this, Bruce McNaughton's - (Aranda's Group) workmanship
is of the highest caliber A+++, you cannot fault it, honestly, it is truly
a pleasure to do business with people that clearly take great pride in
their work, Bruce McNaughton's - (Aranda's Group) is of one of them.

Cheers
Sean Morris
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#11 Ian Dudley

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 01:06 PM

Hi,

I had forgotten about the Aranda Group mods. I've been in touch with Bruce and he seems like a great guy and very dedicated. That's definately another great way to bring the Kinor into this century.

Otherwise, the power connector on the Kinor is a Russian 4 pin bayo mount arrangement. It's luckily identical to the connector on the 17EP motor for Konvas. Rather than modifiing the Kinor itself, I simply rewired the original Russian cable to 4 pin XLR which can carry the needed 18 volts for Kinor 35H. Very simple. I power the whole kit off of 18 volt Ryobi batteries. These are very cheap, charge fast and available practically anywhere.

It all works very well and I've been thrilled by the results.

Cheers,

Ian

James, :D

Bruce has updated my Kinor to the new 5000 electronics, and has also
Hardfronted a ARRI IIC for me, fixed a Konvas, machined a new OCT
mount, resprayed, re-furbished my Kinor etc..and many, many more
small & large fiddly and complex jobs.

I can tell you this, Bruce McNaughton's - (Aranda's Group) workmanship
is of the highest caliber A+++, you cannot fault it, honestly, it is truly
a pleasure to do business with people that clearly take great pride in
their work, Bruce McNaughton's - (Aranda's Group) is of one of them.

Cheers
Sean Morris


Hi Sean,

Did Bruce put an OCT 19 mount on your 2c? Also do you have any images of your improved Kinor?

Thanks.

Ian
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#12 Bruce McNaughton

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Posted 15 November 2006 - 06:49 PM

Yeah, I checked out your camera in my surfing last night. Pretty cool. I'll probably stick with the 4 perf setup for now as I already own the equipment to do my own processing, printing and old school for editing (IE flatbed w/ trim-bin and splicer etc) but I AM interested in updating the electronics at some point so I'll keep your site bookmarked. How does your stuff stack up against the Swedish stuff and do you offer any discounts? B)


It's probably better that our clients, rather than me, respond to the performance of the electronics. We certainly place the digital readouts next to the assistant where they belong and course our 5000 crystal speeds are very useful. Ours has an accessory plug that accepts an intervalometer and a remote start/stop/speed readout unit. And we have addressed the problem of insufficient torque in the 1000 ft mags.

Discounts? We offer 20% if we do two cameras together, similar to the deal on the 2/3 perf conversions

Regards

Bruce
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#13 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 12:55 AM

Hi,

I had forgotten about the Aranda Group mods. I've been in touch with Bruce and he seems like a great guy and very dedicated. That's definately another great way to bring the Kinor into this century.

Otherwise, the power connector on the Kinor is a Russian 4 pin bayo mount arrangement. It's luckily identical to the connector on the 17EP motor for Konvas. Rather than modifiing the Kinor itself, I simply rewired the original Russian cable to 4 pin XLR which can carry the needed 18 volts for Kinor 35H. Very simple. I power the whole kit off of 18 volt Ryobi batteries. These are very cheap, charge fast and available practically anywhere.

It all works very well and I've been thrilled by the results.

Cheers,

Ian


Way cool. Do you have some pics or scematics of how you wired the XLR up, par chance and were's a good place to pick up 18 volt Ryobi batteries?


It's probably better that our clients, rather than me, respond to the performance of the electronics. We certainly place the digital readouts next to the assistant where they belong and course our 5000 crystal speeds are very useful. Ours has an accessory plug that accepts an intervalometer and a remote start/stop/speed readout unit. And we have addressed the problem of insufficient torque in the 1000 ft mags.

Discounts? We offer 20% if we do two cameras together, similar to the deal on the 2/3 perf conversions

Regards

Bruce


That's good to know, Bruce. Let me finish recooping the cash I put out on the camera first then I'll see what we can do.
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#14 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 03:12 PM

I know the Russians gradually updated the electronics over the years of production, but I can't tell you when or what the changes were. BTW, you can have all 35H and C electronics updated by Solid Entertainment in Sweden.


Here's information on the Swedish update. I think anders has the work done in Russia. Malmo is a short hp across the Baltic & he went to film school there.

From: "Anders Banke" <anders@solidentertainment.se> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: cinema@konvas.org
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:28:14 +0200
CC: Konvas@smartgroups.com
Subject: [Konvas] The Ultimate Electronics Conversion for the Kinor 35H is finally here...
Dear Konvaseers and Kinorians,

Finally our Next Generation Electronics for the Kinor 35H is available:

Solid Cine Electronics Mk II

(I will be uploading photos to the Konvas forum albums shortly, or I can email them to those interested)

Electronics are FULLY ARRI COMPATIBLE, and has 24V operation. (From 20-30V, but 24V is optimum, especially when using the 12V out peripheral connectors the voltage in should not exceed 27-28V).

ALL CRYSTAL speeds, 1-50 fps.

4 setups (all included, all speeds easily accessible, very easy to shift between setups:)

Common filming speeds: 17 speeds

50Hz HMI safe speeds: 30+ speeds

60Hz HMI safe speeds: 30+ speeds

Non HMI user controlled: Speeds individually controlled XX.XXX, i e 50000 different user settable speeds.

In addition, it is possible to synchronise the camera from any external sync source, according to the following settable ratios:

1:1 ; 1:2 ; 2:5 ; 1:4 ; 1:4 ; 1:5

And / or from a video signal.

Synching from Arri Speed control unit



There is of course a PHASE function, for all speeds.


Furthermore, the electronics has a BUILT IN programmable intervalometer:

Programmable up to 9999 frames.

Exposure settable between 0.5 and 59 seconds, in 0.1 second increments.

Interval: from 1 second to 99 mins 59 seconds.


Electronic footage counter, user settable in meters or feet, 4 means of footage counting:

USER: The amount of footage shot by a single user (like from the start of a feature film)

SCENE: Footage shot from start to stop, for the last scene shot

MAIN: Footage shot from last reset / change of mag

REM: Remaining footage from last change of mag. Note: The electronics automatically recognises the size of the mag (1000? or 500?) and adjusts accordingly (user adjustments of course possible, for short ends et c?). The mags have to be modified to facilitate this, but this is a simple procedure.

TOTAL (hidden from regular user (I e non owner)): The total amount of footage shot with the camera from when the electronics were first installed.

Please note that we do not take any responsibility as far as image stability et c is concerned for speeds over 40 fps. It is not recommended to run the camera at 48 or 50 fps extendedly. All cameras will be mechanically tested before electronics conversion, and if it is deemed unsafe to install speeds higher than 40 fps due to mechanical problems of your particular camera, 40 fps will be the maximum allowable speed. Ensuring a steady image and safe running of a Kinor 35H up to and including 50 fps requires modification of the camera, which is unfortunately not a cheap modification.

Indicators: LCD screen showing speeds / footage counter, out-of-synch signal (ASY), Run signal (RUN), low battery signal (BAT).


Connectors:

Power IN: Canon XLR 4-pin (or 3-pin on special order, at no extra cost).

Alternative power in: Steadicam LEMO 3-pin and 6-pin.

12V power out and I/O, remote control et c: Arri standard Fischer 11-pin connector (3 connectors included!)

12V power out for video assist et c: Arri standard Fischer 3-pin.

BNC for video sync IN.



The camera and mag heater are now powered from the same 24V battery as the camera itself, with an ON/OFF control under the electronics box on the camera itself. (The electronics and camera work from -20 to +40 degrees Centigrade).



On/off switch on operator?s left (like on Arri BL cameras), as well as on the electronics box itself.



Motor stops in viewfinder position. Electronic slow / TEST button for moving shutter / movement slowly.



The Mk II electronics are very reliable, but for the safety conscious the main electronics are all in an easily removable (30 seconds) electronics block, that can be replaced if needed. Extra electronics blocks are available, at (somewhat reduced) cost.



6 month parts and labour warranty.



Production time: Approximately 6-8 weeks (plus return freight time). The camera body will be needed for the entire time of conversion.



The electronics block will be painted black, the camera itself will NOT be repainted.



Note that the lower cost Mk I electronics are still available!!!



These electronics are for the Kinor 35H camera only, Kinor 35C cameras can only be converted to Mk I electronics.



For pricing and further info, please contact me directly.

Currently taking orders.


Additional services / items:

Viewfinder system prism resilvering / replacement (many Kinor 35H?s have blackened silver surfaces on one of the main prisms of the viewfinder system): Reduced cost if resilvering is done in conjunction with other conversions. 10 year warranty on resilvered prisms!!!

Video assist system: Top of the line system at reduced price when converting electronics.

Anders Banke

Solid Entertainment AB

Ö. Varvsg. 3

211 19 MALMÖ

SWEDEN

Phone: +46 40 12 22 66

FAX: +46 40 12 22 64

www.solidentertainment.se

www.frostbiten.se


Hi all

I have now uploaded photos for all to see of the Kinor 35H MkII
Electronics
conversion described earlier in the http://www.konvas.info/main.php
gallery.


/Anders
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#15 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 16 November 2006 - 11:24 PM

Here's information on the Swedish update. I think anders has the work done in Russia. Malmo is a short hp across the Baltic & he went to film school there.

From: "Anders Banke" <anders@solidentertainment.se> Add to Address Book Add Mobile Alert
To: cinema@konvas.org
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2006 00:28:14 +0200
CC: Konvas@smartgroups.com
Subject: [Konvas] The Ultimate Electronics Conversion for the Kinor 35H is finally here...
Dear Konvaseers and Kinorians,

Finally our Next Generation Electronics for the Kinor 35H is available:

Solid Cine Electronics Mk II

(I will be uploading photos to the Konvas forum albums shortly, or I can email them to those interested)

Electronics are FULLY ARRI COMPATIBLE, and has 24V operation. (From 20-30V, but 24V is optimum, especially when using the 12V out peripheral connectors the voltage in should not exceed 27-28V).

ALL CRYSTAL speeds, 1-50 fps.

4 setups (all included, all speeds easily accessible, very easy to shift between setups:)

Common filming speeds: 17 speeds

50Hz HMI safe speeds: 30+ speeds

60Hz HMI safe speeds: 30+ speeds

Non HMI user controlled: Speeds individually controlled XX.XXX, i e 50000 different user settable speeds.

In addition, it is possible to synchronise the camera from any external sync source, according to the following settable ratios:

1:1 ; 1:2 ; 2:5 ; 1:4 ; 1:4 ; 1:5

And / or from a video signal.

Synching from Arri Speed control unit



There is of course a PHASE function, for all speeds.


Furthermore, the electronics has a BUILT IN programmable intervalometer:

Programmable up to 9999 frames.

Exposure settable between 0.5 and 59 seconds, in 0.1 second increments.

Interval: from 1 second to 99 mins 59 seconds.


Electronic footage counter, user settable in meters or feet, 4 means of footage counting:

USER: The amount of footage shot by a single user (like from the start of a feature film)

SCENE: Footage shot from start to stop, for the last scene shot

MAIN: Footage shot from last reset / change of mag

REM: Remaining footage from last change of mag. Note: The electronics automatically recognises the size of the mag (1000? or 500?) and adjusts accordingly (user adjustments of course possible, for short ends et c?). The mags have to be modified to facilitate this, but this is a simple procedure.

TOTAL (hidden from regular user (I e non owner)): The total amount of footage shot with the camera from when the electronics were first installed.

Please note that we do not take any responsibility as far as image stability et c is concerned for speeds over 40 fps. It is not recommended to run the camera at 48 or 50 fps extendedly. All cameras will be mechanically tested before electronics conversion, and if it is deemed unsafe to install speeds higher than 40 fps due to mechanical problems of your particular camera, 40 fps will be the maximum allowable speed. Ensuring a steady image and safe running of a Kinor 35H up to and including 50 fps requires modification of the camera, which is unfortunately not a cheap modification.

Indicators: LCD screen showing speeds / footage counter, out-of-synch signal (ASY), Run signal (RUN), low battery signal (BAT).
Connectors:

Power IN: Canon XLR 4-pin (or 3-pin on special order, at no extra cost).

Alternative power in: Steadicam LEMO 3-pin and 6-pin.

12V power out and I/O, remote control et c: Arri standard Fischer 11-pin connector (3 connectors included!)

12V power out for video assist et c: Arri standard Fischer 3-pin.

BNC for video sync IN.



The camera and mag heater are now powered from the same 24V battery as the camera itself, with an ON/OFF control under the electronics box on the camera itself. (The electronics and camera work from -20 to +40 degrees Centigrade).



On/off switch on operator?s left (like on Arri BL cameras), as well as on the electronics box itself.



Motor stops in viewfinder position. Electronic slow / TEST button for moving shutter / movement slowly.



The Mk II electronics are very reliable, but for the safety conscious the main electronics are all in an easily removable (30 seconds) electronics block, that can be replaced if needed. Extra electronics blocks are available, at (somewhat reduced) cost.



6 month parts and labour warranty.



Production time: Approximately 6-8 weeks (plus return freight time). The camera body will be needed for the entire time of conversion.



The electronics block will be painted black, the camera itself will NOT be repainted.



Note that the lower cost Mk I electronics are still available!!!



These electronics are for the Kinor 35H camera only, Kinor 35C cameras can only be converted to Mk I electronics.



For pricing and further info, please contact me directly.

Currently taking orders.


Additional services / items:

Viewfinder system prism resilvering / replacement (many Kinor 35H?s have blackened silver surfaces on one of the main prisms of the viewfinder system): Reduced cost if resilvering is done in conjunction with other conversions. 10 year warranty on resilvered prisms!!!

Video assist system: Top of the line system at reduced price when converting electronics.

Anders Banke

Solid Entertainment AB

Ö. Varvsg. 3

211 19 MALMÖ

SWEDEN

Phone: +46 40 12 22 66

FAX: +46 40 12 22 64

www.solidentertainment.se

www.frostbiten.se
Hi all

I have now uploaded photos for all to see of the Kinor 35H MkII
Electronics
conversion described earlier in the http://www.konvas.info/main.php
gallery.
/Anders


Gracias, Thanks for the info, Amigo. Do you have a ballpark idea of what he charges for this setup? B)
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#16 Ian Dudley

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 01:15 PM

Way cool. Do you have some pics or scematics of how you wired the XLR up, par chance and were's a good place to pick up 18 volt Ryobi batteries?
That's good to know, Bruce. Let me finish recooping the cash I put out on the camera first then I'll see what we can do.


Hi,

Almost forgot about your question here. I don't have any stills, but it's very simple to rewire the Russian cable to 4 pin xlr. Just snip off the end that would go to the Russian power supply and verify which wires are positive and negative. There should be 4 wires I believe. Then connect two to the positive terminal on the XLR and 2 on the negative terminal and you're good to go. Double check your polarity with a volt checker- that's very important. As to the batteries, Ryobi or Dewalt batteries are available at any Home Depo or good hardware store. They are about 25.00 each and will run roughly 3000' at normal temperatures. Not bad!

Good luck with your kit. Please attach images if you have any.

Thanks,

Ian Dudley
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#17 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 02:43 AM

Thanks Ian, Is there a color code on these cables or can you tell which pins are + and which are - by placement from say left to right looking at them? I have hear the Russians had a bad habit of wiring the same thing slightly differently on occation is thay were having a off day. I just want to find out if there's a way to insure which is positive and which is negative before accidentally wiring them up incorrectly and frying the circuit board. I also thought about using 18vt batteries designed to power kids ride aboard motorized cycles made by Minimoto. Have you ever tried these? Sense the Ryobis have that long shaft that slides into the power tools, did you make some sort of a fitting to slide the Ryobi or Dewalt batteries into so they'd lock down and stay connected to the power cable or did you modify the batteries themselves to make them work? B)
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#18 Ian Dudley

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 01:02 PM

Thanks Ian, Is there a color code on these cables or can you tell which pins are + and which are - by placement from say left to right looking at them? I have hear the Russians had a bad habit of wiring the same thing slightly differently on occation is thay were having a off day. I just want to find out if there's a way to insure which is positive and which is negative before accidentally wiring them up incorrectly and frying the circuit board. I also thought about using 18vt batteries designed to power kids ride aboard motorized cycles made by Minimoto. Have you ever tried these? Sense the Ryobis have that long shaft that slides into the power tools, did you make some sort of a fitting to slide the Ryobi or Dewalt batteries into so they'd lock down and stay connected to the power cable or did you modify the batteries themselves to make them work? B)


Hello,

I might have just lucked out with the rewiring. On my cable it had two reds and two whites, so it was a simple matter. I think if there's any confusion you just need a voltage checker to verify polarity. Remember, on the 4 pin xlr connector, 4 is positive and 1 is negative. If you have it wrong, the meter will tell you. Otherwise, with the Ryobi batteries, this is what I did:

Buy two battery sets with chargers. Also buy a 18 volt Ryobi flashlight (20.00). The battery slides into the bottom of it and locks in. Disassemble it and remove the actual bulb and housing. Now wire a 4 pin xlr connector so that it comes out where the bulb housing was. Presto, you now have a 18 volt battery mount with XLR out. It took no more than 15 minutes to do and it's the most efficient power supply I've ever worked with. It's much lighter, cheaper and more flexible than a big lead acid or nicad battery brick like the dolly packs. I attached some sash cord to it and it hangs nicely on any tripod. It doesn't have the amp hours of larger batteries to run all day, but these things are so cheap you can have as many as you like and with the 30 minute quick charger, you're never too far away from a freshly charged battery.

I also considered using Dewalt batteries too, but they are more expensive than Ryobi, and run a little hot (22 volts) fresh off the charger so I was nervous about frying my Kinor's electronics so I went with the Ryobi. I have no regrets.

I hope this helps. Best of luck.

Ian
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#19 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 11:50 PM

I also considered using Dewalt batteries too, but they are more expensive than Ryobi, and run a little hot (22 volts) fresh off the charger so I was nervous about frying my Kinor's electronics so I went with the Ryobi.
Ian


I hear that! I'm gonna try and pick up spare unit as back-up just in case. I'd hate to be filmming and have to quit because the electronis fried. Thanks for all the advice I'll get some pics up as soon as the camera arrives. I have the ones that were in the ad but I'll take some of my own so you can see it. B)
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