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New 40min HD Film Feedback


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#1 Robert Ducon

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 06:04 PM

Hello,

This is my first post!

I am the DOP, Art Director and Co-Producer of a 40 min film shot in 2006. This was shot on a Z1U and an FX1, mostly with the Z1 with me as the Camera Op.

Could you let me know what you think of this video clip? No one else has seen this; there have been no private screenings as it's just starting to enter the editing phase.

Approaching the climax, stylistically this clip is the most "rough" looking clip of the film. This is a rough edit as well. The clip can be seen here:

http://filmmaker.teack.net
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#2 seth christian

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Posted 13 November 2006 - 07:43 PM

I think its gonna be pretty darn decent!!!
Well done! I would say that the directing could
have been slightly better, but its still decent.
Like the girl....she seemed a bit too cool and
calm for someone trying to kill her with a machine!

I liked the active camera movement and the
shots.

What's your plan on showing it, festival? Trying
to push it with investors, or will this be the ending
step in making the movie?

Just on a side note.....I love the player that
displays the clip. Where can I get that?

cheers

Edited by seth christian, 13 November 2006 - 07:46 PM.

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#3 Jesus Sifuentes

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 11:34 AM

enjoyed the pacing of the edit. the tempo was enough to give a feeling of hyperventilation. the yellow tones of lighting diffently added to the hysteria. very well done. do you know if you have a preloader on your flash player? it did lag alot and had to wait till the whole film finish and rewatch it.
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#4 Robert Ducon

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Posted 14 November 2006 - 12:23 PM

What's your plan on showing it, festival? Trying
to push it with investors, or will this be the ending
step in making the movie?

Just on a side note.....I love the player that
displays the clip. Where can I get that?


The plan is festivals and a local showing for sure in the city I live in. Festivals is the main goal for sure. Not looking to sell it - this, I should mention, is my first film, ever - same with the director. All nill-budget! The player is done through Flash - it's a feature that comes with the program itself!

enjoyed the pacing of the edit. the tempo was enough to give a feeling of hyperventilation. the yellow tones of lighting diffently added to the hysteria. very well done. do you know if you have a preloader on your flash player? it did lag alot and had to wait till the whole film finish and rewatch it.


Good - glad the pacing works. This is only the beginning of a 5 minute climax scene - it ends outside the building with a very expensive (borrowed) sports bike, and the woman that was holding the sub-machine gun gets much closer to our heros.

I don't have a preloader. I have tried before, but I've never been able to get them to work with flash video - if there is a way to do it, I don't know how.

In terms of colour-correcting, it was all very blue before, so I fooled around with it and got it to go all yellow, but it sounds like it's much too much ;)
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#5 Robert Ducon

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 04:16 PM

This is my first film, ever. :D

Any ideas on how to colour correct this thing better? The original footage was a mess - no budget, so to light it, had conflicts between daylight (glass at the end of the building), fluorescent (in the hallways) and incandescent lights (can?t be seen, but lighting the actors) ? so a mix of blue tinting, green and yellow/red. Ugh.

I played around with it, giving it that yellow/green look, but I think it?s almost too sickly. I?d prefer to have a more neutral balance, but not sure how to get that ? I use FCP 5.
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#6 Kirk Love

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 05:28 AM

Robert, it looks like that female with a gun wasn't decisive enough if she wants to kill a guy or not, she looks angry but has no guts to shoot, its clearly seen in a movie. It looks too red too
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#7 Robert Ducon

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 12:55 PM

Robert, it looks like that female with a gun wasn't decisive enough if she wants to kill a guy or not, she looks angry but has no guts to shoot, its clearly seen in a movie. It looks too red too


That should work with the plot.. she was *just* backstabbed by her bf (the man) and the young girl. She may want to shoot the man, and doesn't like the girl, but doesn't want to hit the girl either. With this in mind, do you think the scene still works as is?

It is too red, yes. For some reason, when I take the uncompressed video out of FCP and import it into Flash, it darkens it and adds more colour.. i.e. too red and too yellow/green.
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#8 Kirk Love

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 07:39 PM

add more action, at least a few gun shots when they go to the elivator
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#9 Groenen Yves

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 04:42 AM

Hi,

It's nicely shot for your first film, the chaotic camera approach towards the action is a good decision.

the thing that bothers me, is indeed the acting. Though I was going with the action and chaos, bad acting kept throwing me out of it. Also the sound could be much richer.

Don't take this comment as negative... you've done a pretty good job

Greetz
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#10 Dan Stone

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 04:31 AM

Very nice for your first film! My first film looked horrible.

A few things that stood out to me:

1. The acting. In particular the beginning, where the guy grabs the girl's face and slams her head into the wall. I expected him to say, "why are you following me?!?" - but it turns out they're together. Believe me, I know that, without a budget, you have to work with what you can get. It also seemed as though the girl with the gun was just kind of randomly pacing about until the two 'victims' were in place behind the columns.

2. The picture has a very video-like feel. You may have been going for this look, though.

3. While I love the handheld look, at certain times the picture was a bit too shaky. I found myself having a hard time making out what was happening through the shakiness. This could also be because of the compressed frame rate. At 24+ fps on a real TV it may not be as bad.

Aside from these things I think there are many good things. Among them are excellent pacing, editing and some great shots.

Again, great job!
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#11 Robert Ducon

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 04:50 AM

1. The acting. In particular the beginning, where the guy grabs the girl's face and slams her head into the wall. I expected him to say, "why are you following me?!?" - but it turns out they're together. Believe me, I know that, without a budget, you have to work with what you can get. It also seemed as though the girl with the gun was just kind of randomly pacing about until the two 'victims' were in place behind the columns.

2. The picture has a very video-like feel. You may have been going for this look, though.

3. While I love the handheld look, at certain times the picture was a bit too shaky. I found myself having a hard time making out what was happening through the shakiness. This could also be because of the compressed frame rate. At 24+ fps on a real TV it may not be as bad.

Aside from these things I think there are many good things. Among them are excellent pacing, editing and some great shots.


Thanks Dan, appreciate it!

1. Acting, there are other choices for that part.. It might make more sense if you saw the scene before, but I can't tell - test audience feedback hopefully will when the time comes! In terms of the woman pacing with the gun, must sort that out more.

2 & 3. Not going for the video look! Any suggestions? (I should note: 95% of this film is tripod and track shot, so this is the only hand held *jerky* scene.. which I would think makes it look more video-like. Also, the sun blew out the huge windows - couldn't help but overexpose.) What elements make it look video - sure helps to get feedback and another person?s perspective!
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#12 Robert Ducon

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:53 PM

Let me know how these stills look please! I've used G Film Effects (will be purchasing the plug in soon)! It's fuzzy and "artistic" - the director wanted an Alias/24/CSI Miami feel. I used the plug ins to bring up the chroma and to reduce the horrible HDV compression.

Mind you, this is my first film - but plesae be honest!!

http://filmmaker.tea...ce_scene_01.jpg
http://filmmaker.tea...ce_scene_02.jpg
http://filmmaker.tea...ce_scene_03.jpg
http://filmmaker.tea...ce_scene_04.jpg
http://filmmaker.tea...ce_scene_05.jpg
http://filmmaker.tea...ce_scene_06.jpg
http://filmmaker.tea...ce_scene_07.jpg
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#13 Easton Sheahan-Lee

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Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:11 PM

I liked the scene for the most part but maybe just a quick revision:

When the guy peeks around the corner he should spin back in and put his arm of to stop the girl so it seems like she's sort of panicked. when she runs out and hides behind the column the woman with the gun should shoot at the column and the girl should sort of break down and crouch behind it as if she won't move then all of a sudden she breaks for the elevator sort of catching the evil woman off guard. This makes the other guy have no choice but to sort of sprint out and catch her.

Otherwise I think it's good!
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#14 Robert Ducon

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 11:21 AM

I liked the scene for the most part but maybe just a quick revision:

When the guy peeks around the corner he should spin back in and put his arm of to stop the girl so it seems like she's sort of panicked. when she runs out and hides behind the column the woman with the gun should shoot at the column and the girl should sort of break down and crouch behind it as if she won't move then all of a sudden she breaks for the elevator sort of catching the evil woman off guard. This makes the other guy have no choice but to sort of sprint out and catch her.

Otherwise I think it's good!


Easton, this was shot 12 months ago - it's in the can, no reshoot and changing the director's vision and plot at this time. However, thank you for pointing out your opinion.
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#15 Robert Ducon

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 02:14 PM

I was hoping for feedback on the PHOTOS supplied of the scene in the office (which is more static, not the video at the top of the page).

Besides the obvious orange tint, how does that particular scene look? Thanks!
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#16 Daniel Smith

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:57 PM

That's pretty impressive stuff for your first shoot...


Out of interest, where did you the shoot it? (Not the office scene, the action sequence)

Dan.
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#17 Bhavin Amin

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 07:41 PM

If you're not going for a video look, you might want to be concerned with the overexposure you get with video especially with sunlight. Ever notice how on video, the sky has a whiteness to it? This is evident through the windows behind the girl with the gun, you might want to be wary of this the next time you shoot in bright conditions.

David Mullen writes in an FAQ on this site of one of the problems working with video:

"Exposure latitude. Color negative film can capture a wider range of scene luminence. Video in particular has trouble handling bright areas of overexposure, which tend to burn out quickly without detail (?clipping?.)
Solution: Control excessive overexposure through lighting, filtering, and exposing. Polas can help reduce glare and ND grads can help darken bright areas along one side of the frame."


Also, there's a lighting inconsitency when the 'good' girl runs to the elevator. At first there is a orange light striking her pressing the button. The next time you see her with the elevator, it is dark with a light over her head illuminating her when she gives signals. It happens so fast, most people might not pick up on it - just thought I'd let you know of it.

Overall, it looks great for a first movie!
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#18 Robert Ducon

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 09:19 PM

Dan, where did you think we shot it? What kind of feel does it have? Honestly, I?m wondering what you were thinking.. let me know.

It was a brand brand brand new $40 million CDN dollar building at a University. Amazed they let us use it, but they did - it hadn't even had a class in it yet! It had been completed only 2 months before and was sitting, waiting for school to start. Btw, we used it for many more scenes/angles that have yet to be shown.. ;)

Bhavin, we were absolutely aware of the over exposure (the director chose the location) - and believe me, I got more latitude out of that camera that the average joe! ;) I had graduated ND filters on the front, and did some extensive post correction in the highs - that's as good as it's going to get, and much better than the stock footage (which isn't saying much I realize lol). Thanks for the quote though!

We used what lights we had available to put as much light on the darker areas (the actors, hallway, etc) but we lost a 1k bulb just as we started. The overexposed areas would still be blown out with that small amount of light we had to play with, even on film, but yes, it would have looked much better than 8bit HDV. A better camera and 10bit or higher capture would have yielded better results. The polarizer I had wasn't used because it simply made the darker areas that much darker. Had it been a real film with a real budget I would have used a lot more lights on the hallway, gelled the fluorescents with a matching blue hue, and shot in a different time of the day. Took what we could get - which was one weekend, with next to no crew.

It's still a draft edit - thanks for pointing out the inconsistency. That light above her head was "real" and part of the building - her standing there was my chance/her blocking spot.




If you're not going for a video look, you might want to be concerned with the overexposure you get with video especially with sunlight. Ever notice how on video, the sky has a whiteness to it? This is evident through the windows behind the girl with the gun, you might want to be wary of this the next time you shoot in bright conditions.

David Mullen writes in an FAQ on this site of one of the problems working with video:

"Exposure latitude. Color negative film can capture a wider range of scene luminence. Video in particular has trouble handling bright areas of overexposure, which tend to burn out quickly without detail (?clipping?.)
Solution: Control excessive overexposure through lighting, filtering, and exposing. Polas can help reduce glare and ND grads can help darken bright areas along one side of the frame."
Also, there's a lighting inconsitency when the 'good' girl runs to the elevator. At first there is a orange light striking her pressing the button. The next time you see her with the elevator, it is dark with a light over her head illuminating her when she gives signals. It happens so fast, most people might not pick up on it - just thought I'd let you know of it.



Overall, it looks great for a first movie!


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#19 Daniel Smith

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 03:32 PM

Dan, where did you think we shot it? What kind of feel does it have? Honestly, I?m wondering what you were thinking.. let me know.

It was a brand brand brand new $40 million CDN dollar building at a University. Amazed they let us use it, but they did - it hadn't even had a class in it yet! It had been completed only 2 months before and was sitting, waiting for school to start. Btw, we used it for many more scenes/angles that have yet to be shown.. ;)

In all honesty, my best guess was an Office. But then came up the questions like, 'How did you get permission to clear it, and more importantly, how did you get it' e.t.c.

I personally think it looks great, and I'm really impressed by the HDV, I never thought it looked that good.

The action sequence very much reminds me of an episode of 'Ultimate Force', from a recent series. (Not the first few)

Edited by Daniel Ashley-Smith, 18 January 2007 - 03:33 PM.

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#20 Robert Ducon

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 03:47 PM

Daniel, very flattering, thanks! No one "in real life" has seen this, still blanketed in post and secrecy lol, so, it's nice to hear something positive! I've never seen/heard of Ultimate Force until you mentioned it - looks interesting.

Yes, with that chase scene, the HDV codec held up well (still frames look messy, but, that's not the point of video - when movement occurs, it holds up rather well to the eye) - that's probably the hardest the codec would have to work.. so much fast, jerky movement and light and darkness. And it wasn't that bad! The more light, the better - the HDV codec looks the worst when it's dealing with darkened areas.. (because then it's having to compress camera grain as well!)

I'll post more stuff as it becomes available.

In all honesty, my best guess was an Office. But then came up the questions like, 'How did you get permission to clear it, and more importantly, how did you get it' e.t.c.

I personally think it looks great, and I'm really impressed by the HDV, I never thought it looked that good.

The action sequence very much reminds me of an episode of 'Ultimate Force', from a recent series. (Not the first few)


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