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advice? animation setup for bolex rx 4


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#1 Mai

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 09:53 AM

I just bought myself a Bolex H16 RX 4 on ebay that I will mostly use for animation. The filmcamera comes with the Kern Paillard SWITAR 25 mm pre-set-standard 1:1,4 f H16 Lens, the Kern Paillard SWITAR 75 mm 1:1,9 tele and the Schneider-Kreuznach Cinegon lens 10 mm 1:1,8.

I would like to build an animation set up with lamps and wonder if anybody do have any advice on building this, what to have in mind. I will work mainly with two dimensional stop motion, drawings/collages, with sizes ranging from A4(21x29cm) to bigger drawings approx 150x200cm. What kind of lamps should I get, tripod that is suitable etc?

Anybody have some advice on how to go about?
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#2 Herb Montes

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Posted 22 November 2006 - 12:56 PM

I just bought myself a Bolex H16 RX 4 on ebay that I will mostly use for animation. The filmcamera comes with the Kern Paillard SWITAR 25 mm pre-set-standard 1:1,4 f H16 Lens, the Kern Paillard SWITAR 75 mm 1:1,9 tele and the Schneider-Kreuznach Cinegon lens 10 mm 1:1,8.

I would like to build an animation set up with lamps and wonder if anybody do have any advice on building this, what to have in mind. I will work mainly with two dimensional stop motion, drawings/collages, with sizes ranging from A4(21x29cm) to bigger drawings approx 150x200cm. What kind of lamps should I get, tripod that is suitable etc?

Anybody have some advice on how to go about?


I can give a lot of advice here having built my own animation setups for years. I don't reccommend a tripod, you need something more solid. My first animation stand was built out of 1" slotted angle iron and was strong enough to support an elephant. But now I use a Polaroid MP-4 copystand which I bought very cheap. The tall column allows for moving the camera up and down for various filming fields. You would probably want to get an animation motor for your camera. Here is a picture of my Rex4 in my deviantART scraps gallery (it was modified to use a 400' magazine) with a Stevens animation motor.

http://www.deviantar.....;qh=sort:time
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#3 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 07:06 AM

here you'll find some nice DIY-ideas: http://www.sci.fi/~animato/
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#4 Mai

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 08:42 AM

Herb:
Thanks a lot for your advice! An error occured when I tried to view your Bolex setup, could you try to check the link please? Would be nice to see the photo... Sounds like the Polaroid MP-4 setup could be a good solution for me, maybe it is possible to find one on ebay...? I imagine doing most of my projects like that while other times with bigger drawings I might have the drawings mounted on the wall, so vertical, not horizontal. is it possible to angle the Polaroid MP-4, to shoot on the wall,( or in this particular case maybe I better use a tripod..)
Any suggestion for lamps?

Bernhard:
Very nice and informative DIY site! Thanks.

All the best, Mai H. G. (Berlin)
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#5 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 08:55 AM

since I don't know the english terms I say it in german: Eine Vorrichtung wie man sie für Photovergrösserer braucht müsste auch ganz gut gehen um die kamera zu installieren, die Dinger sind massiv und für ein paar euro auf dem flohmarkt zu haben...
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#6 Herb Montes

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 12:58 PM

Herb:
Thanks a lot for your advice! An error occured when I tried to view your Bolex setup, could you try to check the link please? Would be nice to see the photo... Sounds like the Polaroid MP-4 setup could be a good solution for me, maybe it is possible to find one on ebay...? I imagine doing most of my projects like that while other times with bigger drawings I might have the drawings mounted on the wall, so vertical, not horizontal. is it possible to angle the Polaroid MP-4, to shoot on the wall,( or in this particular case maybe I better use a tripod..)
Any suggestion for lamps?

Bernhard:
Very nice and informative DIY site! Thanks.

All the best, Mai H. G. (Berlin)


The link works, you can try to copy and paste it in the URL window of your browser. Otherwise you can go to my DA page:

http://hmontes.deviantart.com/

Click on the link to my gallery and chose the "Scraps" in the Categories pulldown on the left of the next page. You'll see pictures of my stop motion animation setup. For filming off a wall a good solid tripod or mount is needed. In the pictures you'll see the Quikset pedestal I use. It has a gearhead and would work with your setup. This one cost me about $500 including the head from eBay. I got my MP-4 stand from a fellow filmmaker at a camera show. I have seen them there selling cheap. There are several on eBAy right now including this one which is like mine:

260055327903

As for lights I don't show them in my scraps gallery but I use PAR lights with barndoors on tripod stands. I got them off eBay for a cheap price.
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#7 Mai

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 11:16 AM

I got the link to work finally. I don´t know what I did wrong initially.

Again, I am very happy for your advice, thanks a lot. And I like your drawings and sketches on your deviantart website!

I am going to look for lamps and the polaroid mp 4 on ebay from now on....

Best, Mai
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#8 Clive Tobin

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 11:00 PM

... with a Stevens animation motor.


Stevens Engineering is long defunct but the Tobin TTL motor is still being made. http://www.tobincine...com/page14.html
For studio use you would add the regulated 12V DC power supply for $39, or the $99 Heavy Duty one which would also power our crystal motors made for this camera.
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#9 Mai

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 11:29 AM

hi, i am still looking for setups for animation and wonder if these could work?

So far it has been really hard to find polaroid mp-4 on ebay here in germany, but finally here is one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/P...bayphotohosting

or
http://cgi.ebay.de/w...t...p;rd=1&rd=1
or
http://cgi.ebay.de/w...bayphotohosting

One of them comes with lamps as well, but is it stable enough for my bolex rx4?



So which one of the three above do you think is best for my purpose ?
Very happy to receive comments;)

All the best, Mai
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#10 Herb Montes

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 01:42 PM

hi, i am still looking for setups for animation and wonder if these could work?

So far it has been really hard to find polaroid mp-4 on ebay here in germany, but finally here is one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/P...bayphotohosting

or
http://cgi.ebay.de/w...t...p;rd=1&rd=1
or
http://cgi.ebay.de/w...bayphotohosting

One of them comes with lamps as well, but is it stable enough for my bolex rx4?
So which one of the three above do you think is best for my purpose ?
Very happy to receive comments;)

All the best, Mai


The first one with the MP-4 would be best to go even though it doesn't have any lights. The column is at least 2" square on mine and very sturdy. Mine came with a universal camera mount (1/4"-20 thread) but the carraige can be adapted to any kind of mount you can have built. The other stands seem to have thinner columns and may not be sturdy enough to hold a Bolex, especially if you put an animation drive on the camera.
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#11 Mai

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 10:52 AM

The first one with the MP-4 would be best to go even though it doesn't have any lights. The column is at least 2" square on mine and very sturdy. Mine came with a universal camera mount (1/4"-20 thread) but the carraige can be adapted to any kind of mount you can have built. The other stands seem to have thinner columns and may not be sturdy enough to hold a Bolex, especially if you put an animation drive on the camera.


Hi and thanks,

I finally bought a Polaroid MP-4 WITH lamps on ebay.de, got it for 40 euros plus shipping which I thought was very reasonable!

Can´t wait to set it up and get started.
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#12 Mai

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 09:46 AM

Hi again.
Just received my polaroid mp-4 with lamps, now one more question:
Anyone know where I can get hold of the Universal Camera Mount for Polaroid MP-4?
(For attaching my bolex to the Polaroid MP-4 copystand). Any other options are also very welcome.

Mai
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#13 Herb Montes

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 02:15 PM

Hi again.
Just received my polaroid mp-4 with lamps, now one more question:
Anyone know where I can get hold of the Universal Camera Mount for Polaroid MP-4?
(For attaching my bolex to the Polaroid MP-4 copystand). Any other options are also very welcome.

Mai


What kind of mount do you have on the carriage now? Did it come with one?
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#14 Mai

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 06:53 AM

hi, thanks,
you can see how the carriage looks like on this link :

http://www.maihofsta...i/carriage.html

(this is how it looks like when I take off the polaroid camera)
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#15 Herb Montes

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:47 PM

hi, thanks,
you can see how the carriage looks like on this link :

http://www.maihofsta...i/carriage.html

(this is how it looks like when I take off the polaroid camera)


The camera mount fits into that large round socket. I bought another carriage from a person on eBay selling parts of an MP-4. I wanted to build a support for my Bolex using the carriage base itself. The round part can be removed. It's a matter of pulling the carriage off the top of the column to get to the screws underneath. I was going to bolt a plate to the carriage with brackets to hold a mounting plate for my Bolex. As it is now the universal camera mount is a bit weak to hold the heavy Bolex. I'll see about taking a picture of the mount I have so you can see what it looks like. You might be able to strip down the Polaroid camera to get the mount off of it.
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#16 Shawn Gallagher

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 02:01 AM

Hi Mai,

I've just finished setting up an animation stand using a bolex rex-4. I mounted mine to the wall with plywood and 2 x 4's so the camera is solid and unmovable, but I have a bethriot compact zoom lens on the camera for movement. As far as lights go, I'm just using 150w enlarger bulbs with diffusion screens, the enlarger bulbs are frosted so there are no hot spots. The bulbs are cheap and temperature balanced at 3200K, perfect for the Kodak 7212 stock I'm using. I'm also using a Tobin time lapse / animation motor, from my research this is the best motor to use.


Posted Image
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#17 Mai

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 12:25 PM

Hi Herb, thanks,
so if I would strip down the carriage and take that round mount off, could I perhaps have a kind of tripod plate welded onto the carriage? at a metalworkshop. do you think that could work?

Hi Shawn, thanks, very nice to see a photo of your animationstand, looks great! gets me thinking about details I must solve. Where did you get those tiny metal things, to keep your drawings in one place?

All best
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#18 Herb Montes

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 09:24 PM

Hi Herb, thanks,
so if I would strip down the carriage and take that round mount off, could I perhaps have a kind of tripod plate welded onto the carriage? at a metalworkshop. do you think that could work?

Hi Shawn, thanks, very nice to see a photo of your animationstand, looks great! gets me thinking about details I must solve. Where did you get those tiny metal things, to keep your drawings in one place?

All best


Instead of welding I was going to use the existing bolt holes when you remove the round mount. I was going to bolt a plate onto the carriage and then brackets to hold another plate away from the carriage. I was going to mount the camera to that plate so the top of the camera is toward the column. I can work up a simple sketch in my CAD program and post it to show you what I mean.

I've seen those tape down registration pegs before. They were used in the printing industry to hold separation negatives in register when burning printing plates. They fit the holes made by your standard office hole punch. Right now I use tape down Acme pegbars to hold my Acme punched animation paper. I also used to make my own registration system with screw down metal pegs and an paper punched with an office punch.

I can also post a picture of a simple animation stand I made from a small photo enlarger. It will only hold 8mm cameras and lightweight 16mm models.
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#19 Mai

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 06:27 AM

Instead of welding I was going to use the existing bolt holes when you remove the round mount. I was going to bolt a plate onto the carriage and then brackets to hold another plate away from the carriage. I was going to mount the camera to that plate so the top of the camera is toward the column. I can work up a simple sketch in my CAD program and post it to show you what I mean.

I've seen those tape down registration pegs before. They were used in the printing industry to hold separation negatives in register when burning printing plates. They fit the holes made by your standard office hole punch. Right now I use tape down Acme pegbars to hold my Acme punched animation paper. I also used to make my own registration system with screw down metal pegs and an paper punched with an office punch.

I can also post a picture of a simple animation stand I made from a small photo enlarger. It will only hold 8mm cameras and lightweight 16mm models.


A sketch would be super!! Because also I do not quite understand if you mean I should remove the round socket on the carriage (which is the one you see on the photolink I posted earlier), or remove the polaroid camera parts from the round tube which fits into the socket). I am almost sure you mean the first option. Sorry, I am a bit slow... And thanks for naming the metal things ;)
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#20 Shawn Gallagher

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Posted 16 February 2007 - 04:26 PM

Hi,

Yes Herb is right, those metal pegs are called registration pins, they were used in the printing industry but are still available from printing suppliers. I used epoxy to glue mine down, they aren't going to move anywhere. I like them more than the standard animation peg bars since I could use a simple office three-hole-puncher to punch my acetate, backgrounds or whatever. I'm not sure where the best place to get them in Europe is, but I got mine through Ternes-Burton Co. in Minnesota. Good luck with your project!
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