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Tips for developing film at home


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#1 Nitay Artenstein

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:13 PM

Hi,

I want to develop a roll of Kodak 7222 (Double X) using a Lomo tank. The developer is D76, preferrably at a dilution of 1+1.

Can anyone offer any useful tips? Processing time, proper agitation and so forth. All help would be appreciated.

I am aiming for a low contrast negative, so I can send it to telecine afterwards. I know D96 is better for processing cine film, but I can't get it at the moment.


Thanks,
Nitay
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#2 Nick Mulder

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 05:30 PM

I use a stock Kodak D-19 mix with one 'flat desert spoon' of Sodium Thiosulhate per Litre - I think this turns D-19 into D-96 (I'm not %100 sure however) ...

I also use a Lomo tank but I mainly do reversal developing of 7276 - I dont know D-76 but if I were to do neg I'd go for 6 mins in the soup as a starting point (thats the right time for D-96)...

As for agitation I'd give it a spin every minute and a half and a good jiggle at the beginning to get rid of bubbles in the spiral, works for me ...

If it important I'd throw in a foot or so each time testing untill you get it right ...

What size Lomo tank do you have ? (10m, 2x15m, 30m ?)

Edited by Nick Mulder, 23 November 2006 - 05:30 PM.

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#3 Richardson Leao

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Posted 23 November 2006 - 06:32 PM

6 min with d-76 @22C would be enough for a fairly non-contrasty neg. I like the contrast though so I prefer d-19 (or even d-11). The thiosulfate i guess it's mostly for reversal (when stoks need some silver solvents)

I am working now in a project that I have developed 150m of 7222. I hope to telecine it by the 10/12 if you want to see. Just by inspecting the negs, there is a huge contrast difference between the d76 and d19.



I use a stock Kodak D-19 mix with one 'flat desert spoon' of Sodium Thiosulhate per Litre - I think this turns D-19 into D-96 (I'm not %100 sure however) ...

I also use a Lomo tank but I mainly do reversal developing of 7276 - I dont know D-76 but if I were to do neg I'd go for 6 mins in the soup as a starting point (thats the right time for D-96)...

As for agitation I'd give it a spin every minute and a half and a good jiggle at the beginning to get rid of bubbles in the spiral, works for me ...

If it important I'd throw in a foot or so each time testing untill you get it right ...

What size Lomo tank do you have ? (10m, 2x15m, 30m ?)


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#4 Nitay Artenstein

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 01:32 AM

I use a stock Kodak D-19 mix with one 'flat desert spoon' of Sodium Thiosulhate per Litre - I think this turns D-19 into D-96 (I'm not %100 sure however) ...

I also use a Lomo tank but I mainly do reversal developing of 7276 - I dont know D-76 but if I were to do neg I'd go for 6 mins in the soup as a starting point (thats the right time for D-96)...

As for agitation I'd give it a spin every minute and a half and a good jiggle at the beginning to get rid of bubbles in the spiral, works for me ...

If it important I'd throw in a foot or so each time testing untill you get it right ...

What size Lomo tank do you have ? (10m, 2x15m, 30m ?)


Hi Nick,

Thanks for the help. I'm using the 2x15m tank, which is a bit bothersome when you're processing a 100' roll. I would have liked to try processing reversal as well, but I am having a hard time obtaining sulphuric acid, which as I understand is essential for the bleach. Is anybody else having such a difficulty?

How good are the results you're getting with the Lomo tank? Any tips you can share before I start experimenting?

Thanks,
Nitay
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#5 Nitay Artenstein

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 01:46 AM

6 min with d-76 @22C would be enough for a fairly non-contrasty neg. I like the contrast though so I prefer d-19 (or even d-11). The thiosulfate i guess it's mostly for reversal (when stoks need some silver solvents)

I am working now in a project that I have developed 150m of 7222. I hope to telecine it by the 10/12 if you want to see. Just by inspecting the negs, there is a huge contrast difference between the d76 and d19.


Hi,

Thanks for the help. I also prefer more contrasty, 'punchy' negatives. But I understand that contrast is increased again in telecine, and so you need a low-contrast negative to get a good contrast at the end of the process (it's a different story if you print your negatives, but that's not the case with me at this stage).

I would be really glad to see the results of the telecine - I am very curious about the look of home-processed cine film. Did you process different rolls from this project with both d76 and d19? That should be interesting. By the way, aren't you worried about consistency? As I see it this is the main problem with processing film using the Lomo tank.


Thanks,
Nitay
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#6 Robert Hughes

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 02:51 PM

I've had good luck with both D-76 and D-19 developers. Keep in mind it's easier to increase contrast in telecine than to recover highlights or shadows in overly contrasty negatives. If you intend to print you probably should stick with D-76.

Sodium thiosulfate is fixer - I don't know why anyone would use it during the developer stage, as it removes undeveloped silver.

Home processed film can look as good or better than lab processed film; it can also be creatively degraded in a number of ways. Try D-19 at 105 degrees for 3 minutes for a wild xerox-like look (but beware, sometimes it eats the emulsion right of the film stock).
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#7 Film Runner

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 03:42 PM

Wow, other cool info... If I wanted to do a home registartion test on a camera i bought at a yard sale could I develop some film with household chemicals.

I don't care about the image quality, just as long as I get an image I can run through my 16mm projector.

I'm thinking 15-20 feet of 16mm in a bucket in a dark bathroom.

Would this be possible without running to the chemical store.

I heard strong coffee will develop film...

Any advice on a quick and dirty way?

Thanks!

F.R.
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#8 James Erd

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 08:35 PM

These pages might be helpful to any one processing their own film.

This page has bulk formulas for D94 and D95

http://www.kodak.com...5/h241520.shtml

This page has bulk formulas for D96 and D97

http://www.kodak.com...5/h241514.shtml


Ilford's Bromophen Paper Developer also makes a good 1st & 2nd developer for the reversal process. The first developer should be modified by adding Potassium Thiocynate 3-4g per liter. I'd almost say salt to taste but some one might not get the joke and actually try that. I prefer to use an accurate scale when mixing dry chems because I like to be able to repeat my successes and avoid repeating my mistakes.

I often use D-19 modified in the same way for my first developer. D-19 is available pre-compounded or you can compound your own. My lab index is from the 1940s, but the formula for D19 used to be:

Combined in this order

Water (@ 125F or 52C)............................. 750.0cc
Elon ............................................................ 0.3g
Kodak Sodium Sulfite, desicated .................. 38.0g
Kodak Hydroquinone ..................................... 6.0g
Kodak Sodium Carbonte, monohydrated ........ 22.5g
Kodak Potassium Bromide ............................. 0.9g
Kodak Citric Acid .......................................... 0.7g
Kodak Potassium Metabisulfite ....................... 1.4g
Add cold water to make 32 ounces.
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#9 James Erd

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 10:42 PM

Hi,

I want to develop a roll of Kodak 7222 (Double X) using a Lomo tank. The developer is D76, preferrably at a dilution of 1+1.

Can anyone offer any useful tips? Processing time, proper agitation and so forth. All help would be appreciated.

I am aiming for a low contrast negative, so I can send it to telecine afterwards. I know D96 is better for processing cine film, but I can't get it at the moment.
Thanks,
Nitay


You can control contrast by varying exposure and development. I would set up a test shot with conditions representative of what I plan to shoot. I'd shoot test strips, each with exposures of -1, normal, +1 stops and then process each strip separately at -1 minute, normal ( 6 minutes? ), +1 minute. Then splice the strips back together and send them off to the telecine. When you get your video back from the lab you pick the exposure and time you like best. You can tighten it up a bit more by doing a second test, this time with exposures bracketed around the best result ( -1/3, best result , +1/3 ) and for the development times bracket around the time of the best result ( -1/3, best time, +1/3 ). Save the strips and keep a log of of the results.
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#10 James Erd

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 12:04 AM

I heard strong coffee will develop film...


I don't know if this is related or not but I found this website a few days ago while looking for something else.

http://www.costarica..._art_artist.php
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#11 Nick Mulder

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 04:17 PM

Nitay,

I'm using a 10m tank - your 2x15 is a luxury compared to mine!  however, I just bought a 2x15 tank through ebay and it winding its way through Russia as I type (well, at least it should be) - I'm getting great results in terms on contrast in reversal developing with the 7276 and even some old ilford FP4 came out quite fine with reversal - the main problem is drying the film, this is where it can get dirty...  dust, water marks, scratches etc...  

I'm not holding any hope for it to be a professional system I've got running here, its just really nice to be able to shoot film and not worry about processing costs, which means I'm behind the lens a lot more >> all good...  If I can improve it I will but no stress for the time being.

I'm looking forward to the 2x15 tank as it will do 35mm as well, we plan on making a stop-motion/time-lapse 35mm camera shooting one of the older sideways formats (we'll use medium format lenses) - Vistavision I think...


I should correct myself - in an earlier post I referred to D-19 with added Sodium 'Thiosulphate' as being basically D-96 - nope,  its D-94 ...  AND its Thiocyanate not Thiosulphate - two errors - my bad


Coffee paints, interesting - the guy doesn't seem to be sharing though - I'm not sure of the quantities yet, but I've read that instant coffee, Vitamin C tablets and washing soda make a great developer,  vinegar is a stop bath, and fish-bowl cleaner a fixer
...it would be nice to come up with an all foodstuff/edible processing package.
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#12 Film Runner

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 06:10 PM

[qoute]I'm not sure of the quantities yet, but I've read that instant coffee, Vitamin C tablets and washing soda make a great developer, vinegar is a stop bath, and fish-bowl cleaner a fixer
...it would be nice to come up with an all foodstuff/edible processing package.
[/quote]

This is what I am looking for. An easy way to get any image out of film for doing a registration test.

http://www.6url.com/10KE

I get the part about gettign the coffee right but what happens if I don't stop bath or fix, will I lose all the image?

It might be nice to have a decent image but I really only need any image...

I like you above list of house hold items.

If I don't fix, what happens to B/W reversal?

Thanks.

F.R.
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#13 Richardson Leao

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 06:20 PM

Hi,

Thanks for the help. I also prefer more contrasty, 'punchy' negatives. But I understand that contrast is increased again in telecine, and so you need a low-contrast negative to get a good contrast at the end of the process (it's a different story if you print your negatives, but that's not the case with me at this stage).

I would be really glad to see the results of the telecine - I am very curious about the look of home-processed cine film. Did you process different rolls from this project with both d76 and d19? That should be interesting. By the way, aren't you worried about consistency? As I see it this is the main problem with processing film using the Lomo tank.
Thanks,
Nitay


I have a 2x15 lomo and i love it, I have developed about 300m of s8 and another 500m of neg/bw reversal on it. I also have a g3 but i just use it for negs as it's very annoying for reversal. reversal in a lomo tank is quite easy as the re-exposition can be done at the spiral reel without having to remove the film and once you get good in loading the spiral the results are fantastic. If you do BW I would recommend do the whole process on 22C. Regarding sulphuric acid, you can use the one you buy for batteries in car shops. It's more diluted then absolute sulphuric acid, I guess it's 40%, so you need to add about 50ml in a litre. It's not possible to go around without it as the bleach has to stop the 1st dev by its low pH. With new kodak film however, you can use potassium permanganate (instead of K dichromate) as it is less toxic for you and for the planet.
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#14 Nick Mulder

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 07:49 PM

If I don't fix, what happens to B/W reversal?


For neg you'll need a fixer... Best way to learn is to try not using it


If you process it as reversal there is no requirement to fix the film as there is no undeveloped silver left - you either bleached it off already and the remaining silver you want to expose anyway...

I dont use stop bath either ...

Nightly chemical fun goes as follows:

wash
Initial Dev (D19+sodium thiocyanate)
wash
Bleach
wash
Clearing Bath
wash

Open up your tank, pull out the reel and spin it around in the light for a while

(I've left it out for days at this point and its still good if your intitial exposure/dev is correct and your bleach was %100 effective)

Second Dev - D19/Dektol etc...

(Once the film is properly exposed the rest can be done in full light, if you put the developer in too early you might end up with solarisation effects ...)

wash
wash
wash

Collect:
1 1/2 ounces Canadian Whiskey or Bourbon
3/4 ounces Red (sweet) Vermouth
Dash of bitters (optional)

Mix ingredients together over ice in a cocktail shaker. Strain into a martini glass. Garnish with a cherry. Serve immediately.

... I'm not %100 sure though, maybe fixer does other 'invisible' things to the film and my reels are going to fade away in a few months or something, but for now they are still going strong

Thats my theory anyway... working well so far

Edited by Nick Mulder, 26 November 2006 - 07:54 PM.

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#15 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 08:48 PM

[qoute]I'm not sure of the quantities yet, but I've read that instant coffee, Vitamin C tablets and washing soda make a great developer,
If I don't fix, what happens to B/W reversal?


The Coffee developer is at Donald Qualls page
http://www.digitaltr...ta/caffenol.php

I thnik the fixer will remove some of the sensiting and anti-halaton dyes, and harden the emulsion. Your right it does seem a bit counterintuitive to use it with reversal, but I lave only seen it listed as omited in "extreme" processing, like the extreme Litho process that etches away the emuslion, like making a tecnicolor matrix.
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#16 James Erd

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 09:14 PM

I should correct myself - in an earlier post I referred to D-19 with added Sodium 'Thiosulphate' as being basically D-96 - nope,  its D-94 ...  AND its Thiocyanate not Thiosulphate - two errors - my bad

Coffee paints, interesting - the guy doesn't seem to be sharing though - I'm not sure of the quantities yet, but I've read that instant coffee, Vitamin C tablets and washing soda make a great developer,  vinegar is a stop bath, and fish-bowl cleaner a fixer
...it would be nice to come up with an all foodstuff/edible processing package.


I always have to double check when a formula calls for sulfate, sulfite or sulfide :blink: :blink: :blink: LOL
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#17 James Erd

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 06:39 PM

Nitay,

I'm using a 10m tank - your 2x15 is a luxury compared to mine!  however, I just bought a 2x15 tank through ebay and it winding its way through Russia as I type (well, at least it should be) - I'm getting great results in terms on contrast in reversal developing with the 7276 and even some old ilford FP4 came out quite fine with reversal - the main problem is drying the film, this is where it can get dirty...  dust, water marks, scratches etc...  

I'm not holding any hope for it to be a professional system I've got running here, its just really nice to be able to shoot film and not worry about processing costs, which means I'm behind the lens a lot more >> all good...  If I can improve it I will but no stress for the time being.

I'm looking forward to the 2x15 tank as it will do 35mm as well, we plan on making a stop-motion/time-lapse 35mm camera shooting one of the older sideways formats (we'll use medium format lenses) - Vistavision I think...
I should correct myself - in an earlier post I referred to D-19 with added Sodium 'Thiosulphate' as being basically D-96 - nope,  its D-94 ...  AND its Thiocyanate not Thiosulphate - two errors - my bad
Coffee paints, interesting - the guy doesn't seem to be sharing though - I'm not sure of the quantities yet, but I've read that instant coffee, Vitamin C tablets and washing soda make a great developer,  vinegar is a stop bath, and fish-bowl cleaner a fixer
...it would be nice to come up with an all foodstuff/edible processing package.


I've been digging my colection of old formulas and found one that we used at the University of Hawaii back in the 1990s. This one was intended for use with T-max 100 shot at 50 ASA. It was the first developer I ever used for the reversal process on 16MM. I thought the density was a bit on the thin side for projection but it did work. Most of my other formulas call for potassium thiocynate, but this one calls for the adition of Sodium Thiosulphate. So you were probably rite about your formula as well.

Anyway it's just modified Ilford Bromophen paper developer.

1st. DEV: 148g Sodium Thiosulphate to 5 gallons of working solution bromophen!

Bleach: 185 g Potassium Dichromate,
185 ml Sulfuric Acid
Water to make 5 gallons

Note: Add sulphuric acid to water slowly! Not the other way around ;)

Clearing Bath: 185 g Sodium Sulfite to make 1 gallon

2nd. DEV: Working solution Ilford Bromophen

Process:

1st. DEV 10 minutes @ 70 degrees

wash 5 minutes

Bleach 5 minutes

Clearing Bath 2 minutes minimum

Wash 1 minute

Re-expose

2nd. DEV. mixed 1:1 6 minutes and dump.

Wash 1 minute

Fix, do the tounge test ( not the one in your mouth )

Wash 10 minutes, with water and photo-flo.

hangto dry or other prefered method of dealing with 100' of wet film B)
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#18 Nick Mulder

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 07:12 PM

well, thanks for your faith in my not getting chems mixed up but the mixture was really asking for sodium thiocyanate - I've got a 250gm tub here to prove it :D

I got the mixtures from here:

http://lavender.fort...sdeveloper.html

-------

I also have noticed density is a bit low for projection, I'm going to try and push the 7276 in the first dev and also let it sit for a longer time in the second dev and see what comes out, I'm hoping for a punchier effect and blacker blacks - I'll also make sure the bleach and clearing bath are nice and fresh

dry time... its either time consuming or messy ... I use a large clothes rack thing in the garage, I'll adjust the sagging sections occasionally and flick the pooled water from those sections - certainly not perfect, but fine for what I am doing with the film (testing camera mods, testing sfx, location recce, fun etc...)
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#19 James Erd

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 08:41 PM

I also have noticed density is a bit low for projection, I'm going to try and push the 7276 in the first dev and also let it sit for a longer time in the second dev and see what comes out, I'm hoping for a punchier effect and blacker blacks - I'll also make sure the bleach and clearing bath are nice and fresh


I just read something on push / pull reversal processing. I think it was on Kodak's website. If you want I'll see if I can find it again, but IMHO it's better to shoot and test bracketing the exposure and processing times. I usually shoot a few feet at a time and zero in on the look I'm going for. I keep the test strip in my log with notes. Too bad I can't find my log :blink:
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#20 Nick Mulder

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 09:04 PM

Well, when bracketing both exposure and dev times with both 'one-up one-down' brackets you'd end up with 9 different looks, and 9 different tank loads if you weren't thinking efficiently - a whole mornings work! ouch ... I reckon you'd need two big bowls of cheerios and a multi-vitamin to get started :ph34r:

3 should come out nicely with different contrast, accutance, grain, etc (one pushed, one normal, one pulled) - 2 will be underexposed slightly, 1 will be the underexposed IMO too far and the same for the flipside of overexposed

(3+2+1+2+1=9)

I'm going to start with the slightly underexposed stock that will be souped in dev1 slightly longer
(a 1/3 stop or so push)

Edited by Nick Mulder, 27 November 2006 - 09:09 PM.

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