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Dioptres vs. Macros


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#1 Ashim

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 12:19 AM

Hi,

To get a very tight close up of an object, I have been using Dioptres for some while. I have never used a Macro Lens for the same since it involves relighting the scene and hence time consuption.

I was thus wondering when are Macros preferred to Dioptres?

Thanks
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#2 Max Jacoby

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Posted 24 November 2006 - 03:59 AM

Macro Lenses give you better quality.
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#3 Phil Savoie

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Posted 25 November 2006 - 10:32 PM

I was thus wondering when are Macros preferred to Dioptres?

--

Marco lenses are designed for the job of magnification. Diopters rarely offer enough magnification or produce the same image quality. Relitively inexpensive still marcos like Nikons function well on cine cameras and give very good results for most needs (with the proper mount). For high magnification, over ten times, diopters won't cut it, micro lenses are required, the best ranges being that of Zeiss Luminar and Leica Photar microscope objectives. These lenses are optimized for maginfications of 10 to 60 times and require custom mounts due to their RMS thread. When mounted on cine/video cameras the results are outstanding. Luminars have been out of production for some time, hence they are highly coveted. Leica still makes the Photars but as with any good optic they are quite pricey.

cheers,
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#4 Mike Rizos

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 08:26 PM

The above macros by Leica and Zeiss need a bellows as they don't provide focusing.

For any series macro work you should use a macro lens, as the're optimized for close focusing distances, usually at the expense of speed. If you're worried about relighting the scene, consider a longer focal length macro like 100 or 200mm.
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#5 Bill Totolo

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 01:31 AM

I've always like the fact that you can ZOOM through a diopter with the added benefit of a reduced close focus distance.
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#6 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 09:12 AM

Do macrolenses focus on a flat plane, or do they focus in function of the distance, would the in-focus-area be curved? And how do diopters react, flat or curved? or does it depend the lens that sits behind?
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#7 Stephen Williams

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 02:33 PM

Do macrolenses focus on a flat plane, or do they focus in function of the distance, would the in-focus-area be curved? And how do diopters react, flat or curved? or does it depend the lens that sits behind?


Hi Bernhard,

The focus plane should be flat all things being equal in each case, I often end up with DOF of a couple of millimeters, it always looks flat!

Diopters may be soft at the edges, depending on who made it!

Stephen
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#8 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 06:55 AM

The focus plane should be flat all things being equal in each case, I often end up with DOF of a couple of millimeters, it always looks flat!

thanks for the answer, don't know if I got you right or you got me right, my english is not that good... If for example you shoot wide-angle a flat piece of paper that's 90 degrees to the shootingdirection, then the center would be much closer (d1) to the lens than the edges (d2).
[attachment=1586:attachment]
I'm concerned for my mini35 I'm building at the moment...
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#9 Stephen Williams

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 07:23 AM

thanks for the answer, don't know if I got you right or you got me right, my english is not that good... If for example you shoot wide-angle a flat piece of paper that's 90 degrees to the shootingdirection, then the center would be much closer (d1) to the lens than the edges (d2).
[attachment=1586:attachment]
I'm concerned for my mini35 I'm building at the moment...



Hi,

Your drawing shows theoretical focus plane. With a wide angle lens you won't ever get very close as the object will start touching the front element!

Stephen
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#10 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 08:11 AM

Your drawing shows theoretical focus plane. With a wide angle lens you won't ever get very close as the object will start touching the front element!

The drawing is maybe a little extreme, let's say we take a "normal" lens like a 50mm on a SLR. If I set the lens to d1, hence p1 would be in focus would then p2 or p3 be in focus?
[attachment=1587:attachment]
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#11 Stephen Williams

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 01:07 PM

The drawing is maybe a little extreme, let's say we take a "normal" lens like a 50mm on a SLR. If I set the lens to d1, hence p1 would be in focus would then p2 or p3 be in focus?
[attachment=1587:attachment]


Hi Bernhard,

P1 & P2 in a macro situation would be in focus, depending on DOF then P3.

Stephen
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#12 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 03:05 PM

Thanks Stephen,

cheers, Bernhard
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#13 Phil Savoie

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 08:23 PM

The above macros by Leica and Zeiss need a bellows as they don't provide focusing.

For any series macro work you should use a macro lens, as the're optimized for close focusing distances, usually at the expense of speed. If you're worried about relighting the scene, consider a longer focal length macro like 100 or 200mm.


Hi Mike,

Sorry for the late response I was out of town. I have my Zeiss Luminars mounted to a custom PL extension tube(s) set up - specifically for micro photography. We normally use a macro focus stage that shifts the entire camera to and fro and operate with a tilt wedge as well. This type of rig is uncommon but easy to use once your comfortable with pulling focus - it only takes a small adjustment to the stage operated by a hand wheel. With a working distance of less than an inch between the subject and the lens lighting is a challenge - but good fun.

cheers,
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