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Deja Vu


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#1 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:27 AM

I saw Deja Vu tonight. It looked great (I love the use of cross processed reversal) overall, but the Genesis stuff was awful! Any schmo off the street could spot the Genesis footage because of the awful vertical lines from top to bottom. Maybe I just saw a bad print, and maybe this problem wasn't only with the Genesis stuff, but boy was it bad. Did anyone else notice this problem? This was not an issue of seeing an old print. Most of it looked great.
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#2 Max Jacoby

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 03:43 AM

Do you mean vertical flares? Wasn't Panavision supposed to have gotten rid of this problem by now?
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#3 James Compton

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 04:57 PM

I saw the film last week. They used VIPER cams for the TIME TRAVEL DEVICE CONTROL ROOM
and video feed scenes only. The rest was film. You can tell it was done purposely.
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#4 Max Jacoby

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 06:18 PM

The ICG magazine says that night exteriors, night aerials and stuff in the time window were shot on the Genesis (with the pictures to prove it). They tested the Genesis against the Viper and 950 and found the picture to be better.
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#5 Eugene Gekhter

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 06:36 PM

The ICG magazine says that night exteriors, night aerials and stuff in the time window were shot on the Genesis (with the pictures to prove it). They tested the Genesis against the Viper and 950 and found the picture to be better.


I don't know anything about the Viper or Genesis personally, but I did see those vertical lines which makes me thing it was a digital video transcoding problem. It was weird.

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#6 Giles Sherwood

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 06:51 PM

Can this problem be seen in the trailer? I didn't see anything too weird in it... What do the vertical flares look like? Are they the same as the green lines that they had to correct in Superman?
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#7 Cole Webley

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:27 PM

I noticed it as well, mostly only in the time window room with Kilmer, Goldberg, and the other cast members--Watch the Apacalypto trailer, I just don't like the way it captures fast motion.
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#8 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 30 November 2006 - 05:00 PM

Do you mean vertical flares? Wasn't Panavision supposed to have gotten rid of this problem by now?

I wouldn't call them vertical flares. It looked similar to when you shoot a television on film and you can see the scan lines from the TV. Does that make sense? It wasn't only in the control room that I saw this problem. I saw the same thing on night ext's, especially the close ups.
I would figure Panavision would have taken care of this, but apparently not.

I saw the film last week. They used VIPER cams for the TIME TRAVEL DEVICE CONTROL ROOM
and video feed scenes only. The rest was film. You can tell it was done purposely.

No, this was most certainly not done purposely. And you can tell that it wasn't done purposely. I don't think you saw what I'm talking about.
Oh, and they didn't use the Viper at all.

Can this problem be seen in the trailer? I didn't see anything too weird in it

I just watched the trailer @ http://www.apple.com...ical_large.html
and you can see the lines a little bit in the dirty over of Val Kilmer when he's talking to Denzel on the back of the ferry. They're hard to see at this small size, but obviously when blown up to 40 ft. they would be obvious. Have a look and see if you notice. If my memory serves me, that scene was the first time I noticed them when I saw the film.
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#9 Boone Hudgins

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 04:23 AM

I saw what appeared to be a large grid over some shots that were shot on the Genesis. Some shots had that digital shutter smear, too. But I forgot about it after a while.
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#10 Evan Winter

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 04:10 AM

Just saw this tonight.

Personally I noticed a faint grid like pattern over a night scene between Denzel and Val. It looked almost like somebody has thrown a translucent burlap bag over the lens. It was extremely strange.

I hadn't heard that any of the film had been shot digitally and when I saw this weird 'artifact' I thought something must have gone horribly wrong in either filming/processing/printing and that the end result was the best 'save' that could be done.

I was actually wondering whether they had seriously pushed the film (for lack of light as opposed to for effect) and then tried some strange post trickery to bring the image back to a 'normal' looking place. Whatever it was it was truly odd.
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#11 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 01:11 PM

I snuck into a theater and saw the first hour of the movie, and noticed that odd artifact with the Genesis footage, twice, this faint screen-door pattern over the image. Obviously something went wrong somewhere, probably in the original shooting (otherwise, they would have fixed it.) I'll have to ask Panavision what's up with that because I've never seen it before in Genesis material.
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#12 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 06:45 PM

this faint screen-door pattern over the image.

Yes, that's a great way to describe it. I don't think I was doing a very good job of giving a description...
Please post when you get an answer from Panavision David. I think you'll be able to get a straighter answer out of them than I will.
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#13 Ignacio Aguilar

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 05:34 PM

I've seen the film today. I didn't find its visuals as inspired as "Man on Fire", but both the look and film are OK. Any info about which film stocks they used?

The digital vertical lines are pretty obvious on that night scene between Denzel and Val and on the time window scenes, but I think I've seen them too on daylight exteriors stuff, which is supposed to have been shot on film...
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#14 J. Lamar King

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 11:45 PM

The only thing I ever noticed in that trailer is the huge growth on Val Kilmer's cheek. Is that makeup or does he need to see a doctor? :unsure:
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#15 Jonathan Bowerbank

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 02:29 AM

At Apple.com's trailer site you can download a 1080i version of the trailer, if you're really curious to see what everyone's talking about.

I noticed some lack of quality in the out of focus areas of the frames, it just looks so different from film that I'm not too crazy about it yet.
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#16 Tomas Koolhaas

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 02:59 AM

Hi,
I haven't seen the film in question but I have seen the "Screen door" effect on some footage before shot on the XL1 many years ago while I was in film school. When I asked a VFX friend of mine what he thought it might be he said something about the CCDs may have got overheated/overused or something, I cant remember his exact answer. I have seen it a couple times since in other people's DV projects but never any high end HD projects.
Does anyone know what exactly causes this effect? (I have hunch Phil Rhodes or Tim.J.Durham may know)
Cheers.
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#17 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 04:49 PM

The digital vertical lines are pretty obvious on that night scene between Denzel and Val and on the time window scenes, but I think I've seen them too on daylight exteriors stuff, which is supposed to have been shot on film...

Did you see them on exteriors on Deja Vu? I didn't notice any problems on any daylight scenes.
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#18 Ignacio Aguilar

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 09:24 PM

Did you see them on exteriors on Deja Vu? I didn't notice any problems on any daylight scenes.


It was more apparent on the low-light scenes, but I believe that I saw it two or three times on daylight scenes which should have been originated on film. The effect was so weird that at first I thought that they'd used some diffusion filter with the lenses wide-open and I was seeing the filter pattern itself or something like that. I wasn't aware of the problem prior to watching the film (and thus I wasn't paying special attention to it), that's why when I read this post I was surprised because nobody mentions those bands on the non-genesis stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I saw I assumed only some night shots and the "time-window" scenes were shot digitally, with the rest being originated in Super-35.
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#19 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 09:11 PM

that's why when I read this post I was surprised because nobody mentions those bands on the non-genesis stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I saw I assumed only some night shots and the "time-window" scenes were shot digitally, with the rest being originated in Super-35.

From what I understand, you are correct about what scenes were shot digitally. I didn't notice anything in any of the daylight scenes, but if there are problems with the film originated material then maybe the problem isn't with the Genesis at all, but something to do with post. It shocks me that these problems have shown up at all. They're not exactly minor issues.
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#20 Tim Tyler

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 09:56 PM

Since most of the screen door shots seemed to be CU's and ECU's, I was thinking they made some last minute post decisions to zoom in digitally and those lines were artifacts. The effect was such that it may have not been visible on anything except a large projected image and therefore nobody noticed it until it was too late. That's my guess.
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