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#1 Pablo Herrera

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 09:50 AM

Alright, first i got to say, I love this site. Ive learned so much just going thru all the old forums.
Anyways, I am putting together a dcumentary for this band, and they are wanting me to make half of the movie on super 8. Now im a digital guy myself, and I have never done film. I would love to learn the whole process, since i do believe that I would later in the future prefer making short films with actual film.
I told them I dont know film but im willing to learn. They replied with saying that they would pay for most if not all the equipment. Now really they dont have much money since they laid down so much on their studio already.
I told them it could get pretty expensive. Now I'm asking for a rough estimate of how much it would cost in the end to have developed then transferred to be edited on computer then back to film. I don't even know the order. Please correct me on the steps I am missing. I think this a great opportunity to learn a bit of the process of film. They are totally cool with me figuring out what I need to figure out to make this possible.
If there are books you think i should pick up please list them. If I am way over my head and think I should be shot, please tell me.

thanks in advance
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#2 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:51 PM

Alright, first i got to say, I love this site. Ive learned so much just going thru all the old forums.
Anyways, I am putting together a dcumentary for this band, and they are wanting me to make half of the movie on super 8. Now im a digital guy myself, and I have never done film. I would love to learn the whole process, since i do believe that I would later in the future prefer making short films with actual film.
I told them I dont know film but im willing to learn. They replied with saying that they would pay for most if not all the equipment. Now really they dont have much money since they laid down so much on their studio already.
I told them it could get pretty expensive. Now I'm asking for a rough estimate of how much it would cost in the end to have developed then transferred to be edited on computer then back to film. I don't even know the order. Please correct me on the steps I am missing. I think this a great opportunity to learn a bit of the process of film. They are totally cool with me figuring out what I need to figure out to make this possible.
If there are books you think i should pick up please list them. If I am way over my head and think I should be shot, please tell me.

thanks in advance


Basically, buy the film stock, pay for processing, pay for transfer to digital video, then transfer into your computer and from then on treat it the way you would treat a digital video project.

I'm going to estimate slightly on the high side since it's your first time and the padding could help.

Figure 20 bucks per cartridge, 15 bucks for processing, figure 33 dollars per 50 feet on a rank cintel transfer system. (can be as little as 5-10 bucks if you go with a cheaper transfer quality method)

Add in the video tape and tax and you're probably around 75 dollars per 3 minutes to get your image ready for the computer. Roughly 25 dollars a minute, depending on whether you shoot at 18 frames or 24 frames a second. At 18 frames per second, lets call it 25 dollars a minute, at 24 frames per second, lets call it 33 dollars per minute.

Someone who owns a workprinter or film chain transfer system can probably do the transfer for less money than a rank house, Subtract 7.50 dollars per minute from the total cost, so that would make it 17.50 dollars a minute for 18 frames per second, or around 25 dollars a minute if you shoot at 24 frames per second.

Don't wait to shoot all your footage at one time with no pre-tests done ahead of time. I'd recommend testing your camera for sharpness in low light situations by staying in the manual exposure mode with the f-stop wide open, and a similar second test with the f-stop at f2.0, or f2.0/2.8 split. Test the 500 T and the 200 T negative stocks, they offer huge versatility.

I've become a fan of shooting at 18 frames per second because it both gives you an additional 50 seconds of filming time per cartridge and it also gives you an additional 1/2 f-stop of sensitivity. Shooting at 9 frames per second and then transferring at 9 frames per second will give you an additional f stop of sensitivity versus shooting at 18 frames per second. I don't recommend shooting all of your footage this way but in low light situations it can be an excellent option.

If you will be shooting outdoors then do a test there as well. For your first project you might want to do a scaled down short film of your film idea, and just stick with the negative stocks to see if they can handle both indoors and outdoors shooting situations, then expand to the Black and white and color reversal for any future projects.
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#3 Pablo Herrera

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:10 PM

Thank you so much for the reply. Super helpful!
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#4 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 04:23 PM

Send them my way- I'll knock there socks off.
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#5 Pablo Herrera

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 09:26 PM

Ok this may be a dumb question, but the band leader would like to know if there is a way for me to process the film myself. How much would that run them and what all is need for this process? This gig really doesnt pay anything other then experience and im more then ok with that.
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:54 PM

Ok this may be a dumb question, but the band leader would like to know if there is a way for me to process the film myself. How much would that run them and what all is need for this process? This gig really doesnt pay anything other then experience and im more then ok with that.


If it really doesn't pay anything, why would you want to invest in all the equipment and chemicals just to process the footage? It would be cheaper to send it off for processing.

Processing is very complicated and requires a lot of quality control, and is perhaps even more important with a tiny film format where dust problems become magnified. With motion picture color neg, you have rem jet to remove in the ECN2 process; with reversal, you have the whole reversing step to deal with.
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#7 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 01:58 AM

Ok this may be a dumb question, but the band leader would like to know if there is a way for me to process the film myself. How much would that run them and what all is need for this process? This gig really doesnt pay anything other then experience and im more then ok with that.


Two things you need to produce something on film: light and money... two things that most musicians don't seem to get. And contrary to their belief of video production consisting of a miners helmet cam, and existing interior lighting, you really need to spend a few hundred bucks on film, processing, and telecine transfer. assuming you have camera gear and some light, they will need to shell out at least $400-600 for the basics. but it's worth it.
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#8 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 04:54 AM

Send them my way- I'll knock there socks off.


Are you referring to video transfer services or cinematography services?
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#9 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 01 December 2006 - 08:46 PM

Are you referring to video transfer services or cinematography services?

Cinematography and editing... I've done a lot of work with bands, live and experimantal shooting.
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#10 steve hyde

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 02:58 AM

....You should have a look at Tony Shilling's documentary on the Portland Pop Music Festival. It's an excellent example of high-end super 8 work..

Steve
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#11 Bryan Darling

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 06:15 AM

....You should have a look at Tony Shilling's documentary on the Portland Pop Music Festival. It's an excellent example of high-end super 8 work..

Steve


What's the name of the documentary?
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Aerial Filmworks

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