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NYC PAL progressive rental?


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#1 Frank Barrera

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:10 PM

Hello all,

Plan to shoot music video for French artist in NYC destined for PAL post. Director wishes for progressive scan capture. After I contacted both PalEast and Atlantic TV and discovered that neither has a progressive PAL camera I suggested to the producers that we shoot 720/25p with ye ol Varicam. I won't get into why they don't want to capture in HD but lets' just say it has something to do with a mixture of fear and money...

Question: Am I correct to assume that if HD is infact off the table that we will have to shoot with an interlaced camera? Probably DigiBeta DVW-790 (which I can get in PAL). As far as my research can find there is no DVW-970 (the progressive scan capable Digi) in NYC much less the PAL version of that camera. Am I missing something here?


Thanks for any thoughts.

f
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#2 Frank Barrera

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Posted 02 December 2006 - 04:01 PM

(For what it's worth I'll answer my own question)

Frank,

You can look high and low in NYC (as I'm sure you have already) and you will not find a full sized Standard Definition PAL camera that shoots progressive frames. Looks like you'll have to convince them to go with an HD camera. And since they don't like the Varicam maybe you could suggest the CineAlta F900.

Yours truly,

Frank



Frank,

Thanks for the speedy reply. As you say: There is no full sized SD 25p option here in NYC. How strange is that? And I thought I (you) could get anything on this dirty little island.

I told production yesterday that we have to shoot with the F-900 or.... the F-900.


xoxo
F
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#3 Tim J Durham

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 12:05 AM

(For what it's worth I'll answer my own question)

Frank,

You can look high and low in NYC (as I'm sure you have already) and you will not find a full sized Standard Definition PAL camera that shoots progressive frames. Looks like you'll have to convince them to go with an HD camera. And since they don't like the Varicam maybe you could suggest the CineAlta F900.

Yours truly,

Frank
Frank,

Thanks for the speedy reply. As you say: There is no full sized SD 25p option here in NYC. How strange is that? And I thought I (you) could get anything on this dirty little island.

I told production yesterday that we have to shoot with the F-900 or.... the F-900.
xoxo
F

Frank,
I think Abel-Cine has XDCam HD F350 which shoots both PAL and NTSC in DVCam as well as HDV. You could also try Bexel. They seem to have everything.
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#4 Mitch Gross

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 12:30 AM

Frank,
I think Abel-Cine has XDCam HD F350 which shoots both PAL and NTSC in DVCam as well as HDV. You could also try Bexel. They seem to have everything.

Yes, we do have the Sony XDCAM HD 350 camera available for rental.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 12:36 AM

A couple of years ago I tested the Sony PAL IMX camera, the MSW-900P, which could shoot 25P and record to PAL (50i). I got it from Limen Video Rental in Manhatten. Don't know if they still have one.
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#6 Frank Barrera

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 10:52 AM

Thanks all for the replies. I will make those calls on Monday. My situation has been largely influenced by the post sup who is concerned about some of the video which involves chroma key. He wanted DigiBeta. I will bring up the IMX and the XDCAM 350 to him.

Thanks again
f

Edited by Frank Barrera, 03 December 2006 - 10:53 AM.

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#7 Tim J Durham

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 11:52 AM

Yes, we do have the Sony XDCAM HD 350 camera available for rental.

Hi Mitch,
Are you going to get any wide-angle 1/2" HD lenses to rent for the F350?
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#8 Mitch Gross

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 04:43 PM

Hi Mitch,
Are you going to get any wide-angle 1/2" HD lenses to rent for the F350?

So far we've been renting it with the adaptor for 2/3" lenses. A Canon 4.7 or Fuji 4.5 zoom is still pretty wide on the camera.
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#9 Tim J Durham

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 05:02 PM

So far we've been renting it with the adaptor for 2/3" lenses. A Canon 4.7 or Fuji 4.5 zoom is still pretty wide on the camera.

Can't say I blame you. When the 2/3" chip XDCam HD cam comes out I suspect these will be abandoned probably. Those 1/2" HD lenses are way overpriced when you consider interoperability and future resale potential. But that's where I am at the moment.
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#10 Thomas James

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 05:28 PM

So whats wrong with renting a JVC GY-HD110 that can record progressive PAL in 576p50 ?
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#11 Mitch Gross

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:09 AM

So whats wrong with renting a JVC GY-HD110 that can record progressive PAL in 576p50 ?

That is a low-end camera with relatively inferior optics. The original poster was looking for something of Digibeta quality, which the little JVC camera is not.
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#12 Frank Barrera

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 03:40 PM

Turns out that the producer from France "knows someone" in NYC who has a DigiBeta DVW-970 PAL. The details are a little sketchy but they say they have it sooo... We shoot next week in the streets of NY.


thanks again for the help.
f
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#13 Thomas James

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 03:00 PM

The JVC GY-HD100 is more technologically advanced than the Digabeta. In progressive scan mode the Digibeta can only shoot 25 frames per second. The JVC has twice the resolution because it can capture 50 frames per second in its progressive mode. American Idol is taped at 60 frames per second so music videos do not have to limited to 25 frames per second. The JVC uses interchangeble lenses and has the option to use lenses costing $13,000.
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#14 Phil Connolly

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 05:52 PM

The JVC GY-HD100 is more technologically advanced than the Digabeta. In progressive scan mode the Digibeta can only shoot 25 frames per second. The JVC has twice the resolution because it can capture 50 frames per second in its progressive mode. American Idol is taped at 60 frames per second so music videos do not have to limited to 25 frames per second. The JVC uses interchangeble lenses and has the option to use lenses costing $13,000.



Many people don't like the 50fps look, for promos etc the motion at 25fps is more filmic and many people, myself included, prefer the look of 25/24 fps.

The Digi-beta 970 is a much much better camera than the gy-HD100, I've used both and the 970PAL is just loverly. Colour rendition is much better, latitude is better, its more sensitive, images are less noisy, better lens choice, shallower depth of field, more image control, sharp viewfinder.... Its so good, I'd be very keen to see it in an AB test with the varicam to see if theirs much between them qualitywise.

I think the JVC camera is good for the money - but you can't compare it with a proper broadcast camera costing 10 times as much
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#15 Sander van de kerkhof

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 04:43 PM

Many people don't like the 50fps look, for promos etc the motion at 25fps is more filmic and many people, myself included, prefer the look of 25/24 fps.

The Digi-beta 970 is a much much better camera than the gy-HD100, I've used both and the 970PAL is just loverly. Colour rendition is much better, latitude is better, its more sensitive, images are less noisy, better lens choice, shallower depth of field, more image control, sharp viewfinder.... Its so good, I'd be very keen to see it in an AB test with the varicam to see if theirs much between them qualitywise.

I think the JVC camera is good for the money - but you can't compare it with a proper broadcast camera costing 10 times as much


The gy-HD100 also uses either a DV compression or an MPEG-2 compression plus it only has a 1/3" chip where the digi has a 2/3" chip.
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