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New version of Kinor-16 SX camera with Super 16 and Arri PL lens mount.


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#1 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 03:44 PM

I wish to submit for consideration of a new version of upgrade of Russian 16 mm professional cine camera Kinor-16 SX-.
This is modified camera with Super 16 film gate, Arri PL lens mount, crystal sync speed motor.

This is camera available for buy now.
The seller, my colleague from St-Petersburg.

"Prof Movie camera Kinor Super 16 , PL mount , ARRI"
E-Buy Item number: 150068554728

The camera have modified film gate on Super 16 format, re-centered for Super 16 Arri PL lens mount, modified ground glass position and size.

The electrical motor have new style microprocessor controller with 6 crystal sync speeds 8,12,16 , 24, 25 , 29.97 fps, and digital film counter .
The film counter can work in feet or in meters .

The camera have universal compendium ( bellows style ), This modified compendium from 35 mm cine camera Konvas-1M and have possibility of adjust a size of compendium for lenses.
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#2 Ian Marks

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 06:46 PM

Sounds great, Olex. I'd love to see a photo. How quiet is the camera?
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#3 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 07 December 2006 - 07:55 PM

I wonder Olex, are the suplied zoom and primes of any use
on the cam, since the mount is changed to PL?

Is the mount maybe interchangble or a adapter can/should be
used so the normal, for the Kinor lenses can be attached?

BTW, what type of a mount are those russian pro 16mm cameras?



Regards

Igor
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#4 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 08:11 AM

Sounds great, Olex. I'd love to see a photo. How quiet is the camera?


Yes, This is very interetsing version of modification of Kinor-16 SX-2 M camera.

You can see pictures on e-buy page
E-Buy Item number: 150068554728

http://cgi.ebay.com/...usZbs_W0QQfviZ1

I can inform you about this camera from information of my colleague from St-Petersburg ( Russia ).

About noise, The original user manual of Kinor-16 SX-2M camera have information about volume of noise
... not more 42 Db.
The camera have modified a electrical motor, lens mount , ground glass and film gate.
That's why, the volume of noise not must change.
Any case, you can make additional cover inside inside body and use of soft blimp on body and magazine.
And you will diminish of noise.

Kinor-16 with Arri PL lens mount can use any lenses of 16 mm, 35 mm cameras with Arri PL lens mount.
The owner test of Kinor-16 with Arri PL with modern prime lenses Carl Zeiss Ultra Prime and lenses fix very good.
If any body interestingt, i can send pictures of Kinor-16 with Carl Zeiss Ultra Prime lenses by e-mail.

You can use Elite Optics Super 16, Optar Illumina Super 16, Carl Zeiss, Cooke and other lenses.
About use of original OPF-12 and OKS lenses, i ask owner and will inform additional.

But, Normal 16 prime lenses can cover Super 16 film gate from 25..35 mm of focal distance.

The russian professional 16 mm cine cameras had lens mount with outside view similar of Arri PL, with four blades and diameter 43 mm and flange focal distance 52 mm.
This is lens mount have no original name, i can send number of factory design drawing, showed this lens mount only.
I think, we can call of this lens mount " Kinor-16 lens mount ".
This lens mount have Kinor-16 SX-1M, Kinor-16 SX-2M, Kinor-16 SX-3M, Kinor-16 R ( 4KSR ) and a some professional studio 16 mm cine cameras.
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#5 Ian Marks

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 12:35 PM

$1,900 seems like a very reasonable price considering that this is a crystal-sync camera with a PL mount. Unfortunately I'm heavily invested in another camera system, but if I were starting over this would be very appealing.
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#6 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 08 December 2006 - 02:29 PM

I think the coolest thing about the camera is that you can pick your six speeds. I want to have my Bolex EBM tricked out to do some odd speeds, and the cost is only slightly less expensive than flat out buying this-- provided the $1900 ends up being the sell price. All I can say is that if something like this were available at this price 18 months ago, I wouldn't have even considered a bolex. If I had the money and time, I'd buy this camera now and just sell my EBM kit in pieces on Ebay to defray costs.
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#7 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 02:43 AM

I just noticed this: 100ft mags? I know you get two of them, but two 400ft mags would've been nicer.
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#8 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 04:15 PM

BTW since we are on the topic of russian 16mm cameras - read Kinor-16 SX's, :)
how usefull/sharp are those standard 16mm primes and zooms
(7.5mm-75mm, 10-100mm, 12-120 mm) at wide open?

Regards

Igor
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#9 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 04:24 AM

BTW since we are on the topic of russian 16mm cameras - read Kinor-16 SX's, :)
how usefull/sharp are those standard 16mm primes and zooms
(7.5mm-75mm, 10-100mm, 12-120 mm) at wide open?

Regards

Igor


I some tecnical information about russian lenses.
The original user manual wrote :
16 OKS-1-6-1 super wide angel lens 5.6 mm F1.8 , angle of view 100 degree, photographic resoluition
64 lines per mm on centre and 30 lines per mm on corners ( 5.5 mm from central point)

16OKS-9-150-1 150 mm F2.7, angle of view 5 degree, photographic resoluition
50 lines per mm on centre and 25 lines per mm on corners ( 5.5 mm from central point)

16OKS-7-200-1 200 mm F2.8, angle of view 3 degree 44', photographic resoluition
50 lines per mm on centre and 25 lines per mm on corners ( 5.5 mm from central point)

16OKS-7-300-1 300 mm F3.5, angle of view 2 degree 22', photographic resoluition
55 lines per mm on centre and 25 lines per mm on corners ( 5.5 mm from central point).

Zoom lens
16 OPF12-1 without 0.75 front attachment. 10-100 mm F (2.5 +/-7%)
The evry zoom lens had pasport and factory write real result of test of zoom lens on resolution.

The real photographic resoluition of zoom lens s/n XXXXX on centre point :

- zoom position 10 mm -74 lines per mm ( standard volume 70)
- zoom position 50 mm - 64 lines per mm ( standard volume 60 )
- zoom position 100mm - 50 lines per mm ( standard volume 50 )

On corners ( 5.5 mm distance from central point )
- zoom position 10 mm -43 lines per mm ( standard volume 35)
- zoom position 50 mm - 36 lines per mm ( standard volume 35 )
- zoom position 100mm - 49 lines per mm ( standard volume 25 )


16 OPF12-1 with 0.75 front attachment. 7.5-75 mm F2.5 (+/- 7%)
photographic resoluition on centre point :
- zoom position 7,5 mm -72 lines per mm( standard volume 70)
- zoom position 75 mm - 50 lines per mm ( standard volume 47)

On corners ( 5.5 mm distance from central point )
- zoom position 7.5 mm -32 lines per mm ( standard volume 25)
- zoom position 75 mm - 28 lines per mm ( standard volume 22 )


Zoom lens
16 OPF1-2M 12-120 mm F2.4
( the information from reference book)
The photographic resoluition with B&W negative film KN-2
on centre point :

- zoom position 12 mm -57 lines per mm
- zoom position 50 mm - 50 lines per mm
- zoom position 100mm - 45 lines per mm

On corners ( 5.5 mm distance from central point )
- zoom position 10 mm -30 lines per mm
- zoom position 50 mm - 28 lines per mm
- zoom position 100mm - 25 lines per mm


This is reference book show result of test of West zoom lens for comparison.

Canon zoom 25-100 F1.8
The photographic resoluition with B&W negative film KN-2,
aperture position T2.2

- zoom position 25 mm -60 lines per mm
- zoom position 100mm - 45 lines per mm

On corners ( 5.5 mm distance from central point )
- zoom position 25 mm -35 lines per mm
- zoom position 100mm - 35 lines per mm

Angenueux 15-150 mm F2,5

The photographic resoluition with B&W negative film KN-2,
Aperture positionm T3.5

- zoom position 15 mm -60 lines per mm
- zoom position 150mm - 35 lines per mm

On corners ( 5.5 mm distance from central point )
- zoom position 15 mm -28 lines per mm
- zoom position 150mm - 15 lines per mm

Angenueux-zoom 20-12B 12-240 mm F3,5

The photographic resoluition with B&W negative film KN-2

- zoom position 12 mm -56 lines per mm ( Aperture position T4.0 )
- zoom position 240mm - 45 lines per mm ( Aperture position T6.4)

On corners ( 5.5 mm distance from central point )
- zoom position 12 mm -22 lines per mm
- zoom position 240mm - 38 lines per mm







I wonder Olex, are the suplied zoom and primes of any use
on the cam, since the mount is changed to PL?

Is the mount maybe interchangble or a adapter can/should be
used so the normal, for the Kinor lenses can be attached?

BTW, what type of a mount are those russian pro 16mm cameras?
Regards

Igor


This is set of camera have lenses with Arri PL lens mount ( modified ).
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#10 Igor Trajkovski

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 06:29 PM

Now that's A LOT of good info you gave us!
Many thank's for you effort Olex!
:)

Regards

Igor
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#11 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 05:35 PM

I was following this auction and it didn't have any takers. I guess the lack of 400ft mags ended up being the deal killer.
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#12 Ian Marks

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 06:02 PM

An item such as this might have to be offered a few times before someone actually springs for it. As I said before, if I hadn't already invested in another system, I'd be interested myself - the opening bid price was basically at the level of a Super-16 Bolex EBM, but the Kinor is obviously a much more flexible camera with its PL mount, multiple crystal speeds and quick-change magazines. I believe that when the 400' foot magazines are available, they're not very expensive by western standards.
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#13 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:54 PM

I was following this auction and it didn't have any takers. I guess the lack of 400ft mags ended up being the deal killer.



Yes, The 100 ft magazines on set only to influence a some negative , but, the potential buyers not draw attention on other great sides of this camera.
You can find 400 ft magazine for $150..180.
But , the camera have :

1. Arri Pl mount ( The modification on Arri Pl can have price $600..800 )
2. Super 16 modification ( The set of parts for modification of Elcair ACL have price $1200 )
3. Modified OKS and OPF lenses on Arri PL. The every modification fo this lens have price $350..450.
4. Modified crystal sync motor. This is modification have price $650..850.
5. Camera serviced and adjusted, This is not low cost service too.
6. Camera have battery, charger and ready for shooting.

That's why, if you calculate of all this best sides of camera and compare of price of e-buy, you can make
resume.

I not understand persons, who ready pay $500.600 for modified Super 16 Krasnogorsk-3 and not draw attention of Kinor-16 Super 16.

Any case, this is first camera and i think, after a some time, the filmmakers will buy Kinor-16 with Super 16 version with double price, because, this is camera Arri SR1, SR-2 level.
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#14 paul negoescu

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 04:23 PM

Can it be modified to add a video-tap?
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#15 Sir Alvin Ekarma

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 06:16 PM

Yes, The 100 ft magazines on set only to influence a some negative , but, the potential buyers not draw attention on other great sides of this camera.
You can find 400 ft magazine for $150..180.


Would the 400ft magazines also need to be upgraded to S16?
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#16 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 03:26 PM

Can it be modified to add a video-tap?


You can ask of seller.
Theoretically, this is possible, but, who will do this, I know not.
If you will modify of viewfinder for video assistance, will need disconnect of original viewfinder and set CCD camera with optical system.
If you wish have viewfinder and video assistance at one time, will need modify a viewfinder track and set semi-transparent mirror.


About 400 ft magazines with Super 16 film.
Theoretically, need modify of film rollers. Will need set rollers with profile of Super 16 films,
, but, from practical manner, original film magazine will work with Super 16 film too.
Need test and if the film footages don't have scratches, all OK.
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#17 paul negoescu

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 02:26 PM

I think this would be a very interesting camera with a video tap
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#18 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 02:19 PM

I think this would be a very interesting camera with a video tap


You can order of upgrade of this camera and add of video assistance.
You can ask of seller of camera about this.
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#19 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 29 December 2006 - 07:43 AM

Hi

The new version of upgrade of Russian 16 mm professional cine camera Kinor-16 SX
available for sell again.

" Prof Movie camera Kinor Super 16 , PL mount , ARRI
Crystal sync motor with 6 speeds - all crystal sync !!!"
ebuy Item number: 150074645877

This is modified camera with Super 16 film gate, have re-centered for Super 16 Arri PL lens mount, modified ground glass position and size.
The electrical motor have 6 crystal sync speeds 8,12, 16 , 24, 25 , 29.97 fps, and digital film counter .
The list of speed canbe change or you can ask about special edition of motor.
The film counter can work on feet or meters , have modified zoom and prime lenses on Arri PL lens mount, have new battery,charger, power cord and ready for shooting.

If anybody will need other set of accessories, you can ask of seller about special edition of kit.
You can ask me about technical sides of this camera.
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