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Aaton LTR 54 and the LTR 7


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#1 Martin Yernazian

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 03:51 PM

I'm looking to try one of this 2, what are the differences?
I did try an XTR but I can't afford one, and I want to get a Super 16 cam that I can put a nice pl mount to it, plus other stuff.

I know some of you are techs, some of your skill will be great on this thread

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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 04:10 PM

I'm looking to try one of this 2, what are the differences?
I did try an XTR but I can't afford one, and I want to get a Super 16 cam that I can put a nice pl mount to it, plus other stuff.

I know some of you are techs, some of your skill will be great on this thread

Best


Hi,

There have been a few threads recently. You need to know the camera's serial no as there were many changes along the way. One of the most important things to remembetr is Service history, LTR's will cost more to service. I am sure Nathan from Abel Cine in NY will chip in!

Stephen
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#3 Martin Yernazian

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 04:15 PM

Hi,

There have been a few threads recently. You need to know the camera's serial no as there were many changes along the way. I am sure Nathan from Abel Cine in NY will chip in!

Stephen


So both cameras where produced at the same time but along the way the started to do modifications and they vary wich is the best model depending the year?
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 04:18 PM

So both cameras where produced at the same time but along the way the started to do modifications and they vary wich is the best model depending the year?


Hi,

No the cameras evolved and spec changed all the time, the serial no is the real model no! :D The newer cameras are probably better, but you need to define 'better'. (Faster camera speed, video assist, built in time code etc) The downside of newer is more expensive! An older camera that has not been overhauled for 5 years will cost $2000 + to get in shape.

Stephen
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#5 Tomas Koolhaas

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Posted 09 December 2006 - 04:29 PM

Martin,
I have an LTR 7 Which I upgraded (through Visual Products) with an internal video Tap, PL mount and general overhaul and some internal part upgrades. It wasnt very expensive and it is a great camera, it has been working very well for me.
Here is the link to another thread were we go into some specifics on the Different cams:

http://www.cinematog...n...c=17014&hl=

Cheers.
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#6 Martin Yernazian

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 05:12 AM

Thanks guys
I would love to have one of the newest models of a LTR 54 Honeslty
but again what I want to know was the differences between the 7 and the 54?
let's say the most recent ones ( I know they are old but .... jezzz this english of mine)
anyway...
please help hehehehe
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#7 Tim Carroll

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:31 AM

The camera evolved through the LTR line. There are probably more differences between the first LTR 7 and the last LTR 7 than there are between the later LTR 7 and the LTR 54. I have an LTR 7, one of the last ones made, and the only difference between my camera and an LTR 54 is the motor. Mine, like all LTR 7 cameras, will only run up to 32 fps, where as the LTR 54 will run up to 54 fps.

The first LTR 7 cameras were introduced and right away Aaton started making small changes. So some of the earliest LTR 7 cameras are more expensive to service and harder to get parts for. The original LTR 7 cameras (and maybe all the 7's, I am no expert) were made as standard 16mm cameras. Where as the LTR 54 cameras were convertible between regular 16mm and Super 16. Many of the later LTR 7 cameras have been upgraded to Super 16. I do believe all of the LTR 7 and LTR 54 cameras came with the Aaton mount, as opposed to the PL mount of later Aatons.

Go to the manuals section of this forum and you can download the Aaton LTR manual. That should give you more ideas.

Basically, the LTR was all the same camera, with just constant upgrades through its lifetime, the biggest upgrade being the switch from the 32 fps(LTR 7) to the 54 fps(LTR 54) motor.

-Tim
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#8 Martin Yernazian

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 12:57 PM

ok great I get an idea know more than ever, hehehe
2 questions,
1) how can I check the serial?
2) How late are the older ones
and I guess 3) if the difference is the motor between the 2 plus other stuff.... wich one I can later upgrade to the Xtr?
I hope that makes sense

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#9 Nathan Milford

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 03:19 PM

There are probably more differences between the first LTR 7 and the last LTR 7 than there are between the later LTR 7 and the LTR 54.


I actually laughed out loud at that. Absolutly true.

ok great I get an idea know more than ever, hehehe
2 questions,
1) how can I check the serial?
2) How late are the older ones
and I guess 3) if the difference is the motor between the 2 plus other stuff.... wich one I can later upgrade to


1) The serial is on the assistant side on a little oval plate that might say "AATON \ MADE IN FRANCE \ CXXX" where CXXX is the serial number.
2) LTR7's go up to about C950, LTR54's go to about C1300 but these aren't set in stone. We're talking about 30 year old cameras that have been upgraded or modified (some in factory, some not). Turn the speed dial to the highest speed. If it goes up to 54fps, then it isan LTR54. If it goes only to 32 it is an LTR7.
3) The motors are the same. It is the construction and materials used in the mechanism that make the camera safe to run at higher speeds. You cannot upgrade from an LTR7 to an LTR54 without replaceing a great gob of parts at great expense (new claw, new bascule etc..). You will end up paying more in parts + labor than you did for the camera body.
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#10 Martin Yernazian

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 06:28 PM

I actually laughed out loud at that. Absolutly true.
1) The serial is on the assistant side on a little oval plate that might say "AATON \ MADE IN FRANCE \ CXXX" where CXXX is the serial number.
2) LTR7's go up to about C950, LTR54's go to about C1300 but these aren't set in stone. We're talking about 30 year old cameras that have been upgraded or modified (some in factory, some not). Turn the speed dial to the highest speed. If it goes up to 54fps, then it isan LTR54. If it goes only to 32 it is an LTR7.
3) The motors are the same. It is the construction and materials used in the mechanism that make the camera safe to run at higher speeds. You cannot upgrade from an LTR7 to an LTR54 without replaceing a great gob of parts at great expense (new claw, new bascule etc..). You will end up paying more in parts + labor than you did for the camera body.

Thanks Nathan for your response....
1) I know where the serial is? but where I can go to find out what year is it?
2) if you where to recommend one wich one you will recommend if tehre is any type of comparission? is the only difference their speed? what about if I get a high speed external motor? is that possible? is that stupid hehehe?
I just want a good Super 16 cam that will allow me to go further on my own, I have the chance of getting an Eclair NPr Super 16 with a whole bunch of toys for a fair price, but Aatons where always my favorite cam ( for Super 16

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#11 Nathan Milford

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 09:23 AM

Thanks Nathan for your response....


It's what they underpay me for >8)

1) I know where the serial is? but where I can go to find out what year is it?


Send me a PM with the serial number and I can find out.

2) if you where to recommend one wich one you will recommend if tehre is any type of comparission? is the only difference their speed? what about if I get a high speed external motor? is that possible? is that stupid hehehe?


For all practical purposes, the speed is the only difference. Had I my druthers, I'd get an LTR54 as the camera would be a bit newer and, as we've already established due to Aaton's early-on evolutionary manufacturing process, the higher the serial number the more small improvements. These improvements are innumerable and not always needed or noticable, like four screws holding in the motor rather than three, a larger bascule disc, steel claw etc.. They go on and on. Early 7's don't have a start-stop switch on the front...

As for the high speed external motor, the LTR doesn't work quite like an ARRI S or Bolex, you don'r have multiple motors you can stick in. It isn't the motor, or how much power you put through the camera that makes it safe or capable to shoot at higher framerates, but the mechanism's construction and materials. For example, one type of crankshaft design might wear less at high speeds than another or one claw support or bascule arm might be better for producing a steady image at high speed than another.

You can pump all the power you want through the camera and set it to whatever framerate with an external controller, but at some point you'll lose registration and steadiness and ultimately destroy the mechanism.

You can see the evolution...
LTR7s go 32fps with 12volts.
LTR54s and earlier XTRs go up to 54fps with 16volts (up to 36fps at 12volts)
A Bi-Phase XTRplus or X0plus will go 60fps at 16volts (up to 36fps at 12volts)
A Modern Tri-Phase Xtera, XTRprod and XTRplus can go up to 75fps ALL at 75fps due to a better mechanism design (40 years of small improvements) and an improved motor and camera electronics.

You have to ask yourself is an LTR54's 54fps worth the additional two to five thousand additional dollars more than the 32fps of the LTR7.

- nathan


I just want a good Super 16 cam that will allow me to go further on my own, I have the chance of getting an Eclair NPr Super 16 with a whole bunch of toys for a fair price, but Aatons where always my favorite cam ( for Super 16

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