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sync tests on Nizo6080 and S800


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#1 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 08:33 AM

There have been some questions around sound-sync and noise-level with Nizos the last days. Here some tests with Nizo 6080 and Nizo S800. With kodachrome-cardridge at room-temperatur(21 Celsius) with 6 NiMH(7.2V).

For sync-tests I sent a test-signal trough the flash-contact and compared it to a 24hz and 25hz square. Camera is top, signal-generator is bottom.

the 6080 at 24fps and 25fps:[attachment=1603:attachment][attachment=1604:attachment]

The 6080, is to fast, it shifts 1frame/2.8secs, or 25.355fps for 25fps, speed is constant 25.355fps during the 20seconds of the test. It's 24.341fps for 24fps and constant as well.

and the S800 at 24fps:[attachment=1605:attachment]


The S800 is to slow, around 22.7fps for 24fps. Maybe because of the NiMHs, normally it runs on 1.5V Alkalines(9V).

Knows anyone if it's possible to adjust the speed if you open the 6080? is there a potentiometer for the speed on the circuit-board?


To test Cameranoise I placed a dB-meter at 1ft to the filmplane in front of the camera:

6080 at 25fps: empty, 38dBA/1ft. with cardridge, 41-43dBA/1ft

S800 at 24fps: empty, 50dBA/1ft. with cardridge, 51-54dBA/1ft

cheers, Bernhard
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#2 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 09:07 AM

That shows a lot of initiative on your part, thanks for sharing!

Keep in mind that just because the camera is slightly fast does not really matter as long as the speed is consistent.

When using a rank cintel transfer facility you can specify a 25.33 or 24.33 transfer speed. Even if the rank speed options may not have that exact number in their system, they will have a number so close to it that the signal could stay in sync for 30 seconds or more.

If you can build an actual frame rate counter that calculates frames per second you might be able to sell them as a Super-8 accessory, especially on sites such as this or in the two super-8 magazines currently in print.

Additionally, you can probably use a "fit to fill" function in NLE in which you change the speed of the film from whatever you transfer it at, but you would probably need beginning and end clapboard sounds on your audio track along with the visual clapboard on your camera, which can waste valuable film time.
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#3 Hal Smith

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Posted 10 December 2006 - 12:51 PM

There have been some questions around sound-sync and noise-level with Nizos the last days..........The 6080, is too fast, it shifts 1frame/2.8secs, or 25.355fps for 25fps, speed is constant 25.355fps during the 20seconds of the test. It's 24.341fps for 24fps and constant as well............Knows anyone if it's possible to adjust the speed if you open the 6080? is there a potentiometer for the speed on the circuit-board?

There definitely is a speed control for the 4056/4080. I've got a 4056/4080 manual. There are two potentiometers on its main board for speed, R221 with sound cartridge, R206 with silent cartridge.

I have a few pages from the 6056/6080 manual. The 60** main circuit board is quite a bit different than the 40**. The 60** main board is microcomputer controlled, the 40** isn't. On the 60** mainboard R216 is the film speed adjustment and R203 is the sound speed adjustment. Are you technically competent enough to open up the camera to find them? I have a sketch that locates them on the main circuit board but I don't have any disassembly information for the 60**, only the 40**.

Nizo specs for the 40** are 23.20-24.80 at 24fps and 24.20 - 25.80 at 25fps. Given the differences in mainboard design it's questionable whether the 60** would have the same specs but at least this gives you an idea what Nizo thinks are acceptable specs.

My 40** manual came with schematics and installation information for a crystal sync conversion for the 40**/60**. The crystal frequency used is oddball and the crystal would be expensive to purchase. I've reversed engineered the design and I'm modifying it to use common, inexpensive, and easy to obtain crystals, possibly even a temperature controlled crystal oscillator module (TCXO). With enough interest I'd be willing produce a few kits for installation by knowledgeable technicians and engineers - I'm not a camera tech myself and would be reluctant to open up and modify other people's cameras, I'll only hack my own :) . I'm guessing I'd be able to sell a kit for around $200.
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#4 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 06:28 AM

thanks for answering hal

On the 60** mainboard R216 is the film speed adjustment and R203 is the sound speed adjustment.


Has it a different speedsetting with sound-cardridge? So I'll run another test with a sound-cardridge to see if there's any difference...

Are you technically competent enough to open up the camera to find them?


I opened a 2056 before but I hesitate to open my 6080 that I got only a few days ago, it's near mint and runs perfectly...

cheers, Bernhard

ps: has anybody seen my post about the 60m cardridges?
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#5 Hal Smith

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 09:40 AM

thanks for answering hal
Has it a different speedsetting with sound-cardridge? So I'll run another test with a sound-cardridge to see if there's any difference...

The sound motor probably drives the capstan and pinch roller assembly at bottom center of the film chamber and the film motor drives the claw and capstan in the center of the cartridge. That would make setting the two speeds rather critical since the two motors would fight each other if misadjusted.
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#6 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 05:42 AM

The sound motor probably drives the capstan and pinch roller assembly at bottom center of the film chamber and the film motor drives the claw and capstan in the center of the cartridge. That would make setting the two speeds rather critical since the two motors would fight each other if misadjusted.

that makes sense, I won't touch anything and pitch audio in post. 1.4% is hardly audible.

cheers, Bernhard
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#7 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 13 December 2006 - 03:34 PM

When using a rank cintel transfer facility you can specify a 25.33 or 24.33 transfer speed. Even if the rank speed options may not have that exact number in their system, they will have a number so close to it that the signal could stay in sync for 30 seconds or more.

With a metaspeed servo (digital servo) equipped telecine (cintel MkIII, Ursa, Millenium, Nova,etc.) you can type in any frame rate you want, so if you wanted 22.57 fps the servo and scan system will run at that speed.

-Rob-
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