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infrared 16mm


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#1 adam berk

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 04:45 AM

Is it possible, and/or does anyone know of a place that could slice and spool kodak's infrared still film to be used in a 16mm cine camera?

here's the kodak link
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#2 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 06:35 AM

Is it possible, and/or does anyone know of a place that could slice and spool kodak's infrared still film to be used in a 16mm cine camera?

here's the kodak link


The swiss army had infrared in 16mm, but the all the stock is gone know. Maybe you'll find some at your local army-film-departement. :D

Traffic surveillance films go a little further in the reds than conventional film, like the Orwo TC 27 http://www.filmotec....I-TI-TC27_6.pdf but it's 35mm Stillfilm. Filmotec does custom slice, http://www.filmotec....tionierung.html

And the Ilford SFX http://www.ilfordpho...16103833526.pdf goes pretty low as well. No idea if this is avaible in 16mm.

cheers, Bernhard

Edited by Bernhard Zitz, 15 December 2006 - 06:37 AM.

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#3 Nathan Milford

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:39 AM

I've been looking everywhere myself and have been unable to find HIE in 16mm.

I've been trying to get the Maco\Rollei IR-400 in 16mm. We'll see if they play ball..
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 10:54 AM

How strange, I just bought my first roll of 35mm Kodak HIE film yesterday and was thinking how interesting it would be to have it in 16mm.

At $15 for a 36 exposure 35mm roll, it wouldn't be cheap.
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#5 K Borowski

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 12:10 PM

Guys, you really MUST stop dabbling into this obsolete format. 16mm is obsolete, a poster here said so! ;-)

I shot two rolls of the Rollei (Maco is gone, replaced by a new film from Rollei that is faster/improved) and it is NOT HIE. The infrared effect is much less pronounced, probably because HIE extended into 900nm IIRC, Rollei steadily falls off a good 200 nm before that. In other words, you don't get the "wood effect" that HIE is so well known for and is so sought after because of. In order to use the Rollei film to a similar effect, you'd have to slap on one of those dense IR filters whereas HIE can be shot with a red filter. This means you're loosing four plus stops of speed with the Rollei as opposed to only about one with HIE due to filtration, so that'd make the Rollei very tricky to work with except in broad daylight in the summer. Even clouds in the sky might underexpose it. I believe Kodak still makes some aerial films that are IR sensitive, I believe in B&W still, I'm certain they are available in color. You could try to get these in 35mm for an affordable price, as opposed to the incredibly expensive HIE, or you could shoot color reversal or color negative IR sensitive aerial films, and then desaturate it in post.These are proably youtr two best bets. I don't know if anyone else supplies infrared aerial films in the USA now that Agfa is out of business.

Regards,

~Karl Borowski
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#6 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 12:28 PM

Guys, you really MUST stop dabbling into this obsolete format. 16mm is obsolete, a poster here said so! ;-)

Somehow you're right; you can do IR in video by taking off the highpass-filter on the ccd. Astronomic-photographers do this with D-SLRs.

Or simply use a cam that has nightshot.

But being an obsolete guy I'd ask filmotec to slice some Orwo TC 27 to 16mm.

Edited by Bernhard Zitz, 15 December 2006 - 12:30 PM.

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#7 K Borowski

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 01:20 PM

Somehow you're right; you can do IR in video by taking off the highpass-filter on the ccd. Astronomic-photographers do this with D-SLRs.

Or simply use a cam that has nightshot.

But being an obsolete guy I'd ask filmotec to slice some Orwo TC 27 to 16mm.



Yes, but somehow I doubt that Sony or Panavision would be happy if you went in and took off the built in filters on their cameras. . .
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#8 Robert Hughes

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 02:40 PM

Ack-choo-ally, I didn't SAY 16mm was obsolete, I was asking others' opinions. I guess Karl thinks it's still viable. I hope he's right.

If you can find it, Ilford made a 16mm surveillance film with extended red characteristics (SPX 200 I believe) which can see into the near infrared. It also makes an interesting general use stock, like Tri-X. I saw lots of it around on eBay a couple years back and bought about a mile of the stuff.
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#9 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 07:57 PM

Guys, you really MUST stop dabbling into this obsolete format. 16mm is obsolete, a poster here said so! ;-)
I don't know if anyone else supplies infrared aerial films in the USA now that Agfa is out of business.
~Karl Borowski

AGFA Photo , the Consumer products folks is bankrupt and the trademarks have been sold off along with the remaining stocks. AGfa Gevert is still Up and Kicking. (they make colur print and sound film mainly for the European market.

Don't know if anyone would be interested in doing a re-slit form areo film these days.
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#10 David Venhaus

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 10:50 PM

I've heard that Kodak would cut and perf. HSI film, as custom order, if you going to purchase a large enough amount of it. I have not verified this, though.

There is also a past thread on this subject - http://www.cinematog...?showtopic=1709

Parts of a movie called "Wristcutters" used some color infrared super 16mm. Also for some reason, HSI film in 16mm, is classified as "Military Sensitive Material" and is not generally availible for export outside the USA.
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#11 James Erd

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:01 AM

Is Kodak HSI is available in 100' rolls? If it is I would love to have a chunk of it in my freezer.

If you can get it in 100' rolls I would recommend renting a 35mm camera for the following reasons:

1) This is the grainiest film I have ever shot. I love grain, but this stuff... wow

2) You are paying for 100' of 35mm film, but if you slit and perf it to 16mm your throwing money away.

3) This stuff fogs pretty easily... even a bit at the edges some say just from handling.

You'll also want to keep it in a cool dry place until you are ready to shoot it. A good friend of mine tried to get pictures of the lava flows of Kilauea on the island of Hawai'i. It sounded like a good idea at the time but when he developed the film it was all fogged from the intense heat :o :blink: Of course that is a very extreme environment and might even degrade conventional film. I wasn't there to see it, but knowing Rick he probably snuck in closer than park rangers would allow.

You'll also want to do some testing before you shoot much of it, as it is a bit difficult predict the infrared effect. Exposure and focus don't quite follow the norms due to the long wave length of near infrared light.

Meters don't read infrared very well. So you really wind up learning how to estimate based on the angle of sun in relation to the direction you are shooting in.

Focusing is another challenge, since you can only focus the light you see and then you need to calculate/guess [ I don't remember the formula ] the adjustment for the infrared wave length. Some 35mm ( still ) camera lenses have a marking for infrared.

Shooting infrared is a lot of fun if you are patient and take the time to learn it. Just expect to be surprised.
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#12 David Venhaus

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 04:41 AM

Over the past couple years, I have seen 35mm Kodak HSI in 400 foot rolls occasionally come up on ebay.
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#13 James Erd

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 12:55 PM

Over the past couple years, I have seen 35mm Kodak HSI in 400 foot rolls occasionally come up on ebay.



Cool B) Now I know you can get it in a reasonable length, but I would be a bit cautious about buying it off of eBay though.

Not so much because of fraud, but my past experience using HSI for still photography has made me cautious about how the film has been stored, and shipping could become an issue as well.

Most of the time everything was fine but every once in a while you would get a role that was fogged.
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#14 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 01:20 PM

Yes, but somehow I doubt that Sony or Panavision would be happy if you went in and took off the built in filters on their cameras. . .


Don't you mean Panasonic?

But once you've bought the camera, they don't care what you do with it.
If you break it and have to buy another one, fine with them.

Edited by Leo Anthony Vale, 16 December 2006 - 01:20 PM.

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#15 K Borowski

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:06 PM

I'm talking about renting a Panavision Genesis or a Sony F900 and trying to get them to take off the built-in filters for you. In stills a lot of people do this as a "permanent" modification of their d-cams. NOT something I think a rental house would be up for.
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