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Mysterium sensor and lens angles


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#1 Max Lev

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Posted 15 December 2006 - 11:23 PM

Quick questions:

1. When using RED's 4k mode a 50mm spherical 35mm cine-lens lens is a 50mm angle lens, right? Does that vary when shooting normal 35 4k vs super 35 4k.

and...

2. Could someone explain to me how RED (or so I've herd) maintains the proper angle on a given lens even when shooting 2k. Lets say I can use the same 50mm lens to shoot at a normal angle in 2k mode. Or am I misunderstanding and this 50mm lens become effectively a 100mm telephoto lens?

Thanks.
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#2 Mike Rizos

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 02:09 AM

According to the Red website, the camera will provide shooting options for four lens formats. 35mm, super 35mm, super 16mm, and 2/3".

The Red sizes for the above stated formats are all smaller than their film equivelants. Here's the Red, and film sizes.

Red super 35: 24.4 x 13.7
3 perf : 24.9 x 13.9

Red 35mm: 22 x 12.6
35mm Acad.: 22 x 16

Red super 16 : 11.1 x 6.3
Super 16: 12.5 x 7.4

So any lens will be slightly tighter than it's film equivelant. A 50mm lens is a 50mm lens for all formats, but it's angle of acceptence will be different.
The angle of the diagonal for a 50mm lens:

Red super 35: 28 degrees
3-perf 35mm: 28.4 degrees

Red 35mm: 28.4 degrees
35mm Acad: 30.5 degrees

Red Super 16: 14.5 degrees
Super 16: 16.6 degrees
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#3 Max Lev

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:33 PM

Oh Thanks,

So it seems to me I would need a wider lens to produce a "normal" angle of acceptance. But I think I'll just simplify my question further just to clarify:

What lens angle would I have to use on RED camera shooting at full resolution super 35 4k to produce an angle of acceptance on the sensor which looks "normal" and least distorted to the eye (not wide-distorted or telephoto flattened)? vs. if I want to produce the same "normal" looking angle of acceptance at standard 3 perf Red 35 or even Red 2k?

And 28 degrees viewing angle seems a bit telephoto to me, or am I wrong?
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:46 PM

Oh Thanks,

So it seems to me I would need a wider lens to produce a "normal" angle of acceptance. But I think I'll just simplify my question further just to clarify:

What lens angle would I have to use on RED camera shooting at full resolution super 35 4k to produce an angle of acceptance on the sensor which looks "normal" and least distorted to the eye (not wide-distorted or telephoto flattened)? vs. if I want to produce the same "normal" looking angle of acceptance at standard 3 perf Red 35 or even Red 2k?

And 28 degrees viewing angle seems a bit telephoto to me, or am I wrong?


Hi,

I would think a 35mm lens would be 'normal' .

FWIW a 50mm is a standard lens on a 35mm still camera, not a movie camera. (Still camera is 8 perf)

Stephen
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#5 Max Lev

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Posted 16 December 2006 - 05:35 PM

Hi,

I would think a 35mm lens would be 'normal' .

FWIW a 50mm is a standard lens on a 35mm still camera, not a movie camera. (Still camera is 8 perf)

Stephen



Oh yes, that makes sense. A 35mm motion picture frame is about 2/3 the size of a 35 mm still photography frame.
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#6 Greg Lowry

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:00 PM

2. Could someone explain to me how RED (or so I've herd) maintains the proper angle on a given lens even when shooting 2k. Lets say I can use the same 50mm lens to shoot at a normal angle in 2k mode. Or am I misunderstanding and this 50mm lens become effectively a 100mm telephoto lens?


RED will reportedly have the capability to do in-camera scaling of its 4K image to 2K output, thus using the full sensor for both 4K and 2K capture while maintaining the same image magnification of S35 format lenses for both 4K and 2K-scaled capture.

In the 2K windowed mode, however, the sensor is cropped to about S16 format dimensions so lens image magnification will be greater when using S35 format lenses.

Edited by Greg Lowry, 17 December 2006 - 07:03 PM.

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#7 Greg Lowry

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 02:36 AM

RED will reportedly have the capability to do in-camera scaling of its 4K image to 2K output, thus using the full sensor for both 4K and 2K capture while maintaining the same image magnification of S35 format lenses for both 4K and 2K-scaled capture.

In the 2K windowed mode, however, the sensor is cropped to about S16 format dimensions so lens image magnification will be greater when using S35 format lenses.


The first part of my post is not longer correct. RED has changed the format specs.


RED will reportedly have the capability to do in-camera scaling of its 4K image to 2K output, thus using the full sensor for both 4K and 2K capture while maintaining the same image magnification of S35 format lenses for both 4K and 2K-scaled capture.

In the 2K windowed mode, however, the sensor is cropped to about S16 format dimensions so lens image magnification will be greater when using S35 format lenses.


The first part of my post is not longer correct. RED has changed the format specs.
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