Jump to content


Photo

Zeiss 14-84mm T2.4 super 16 lens


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Mike Rizos

Mike Rizos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Other

Posted 18 December 2006 - 08:25 PM

I have a chance to purchace this lens for what seems to be a reasonable price, but having never heard of it, I am not sure what to expect. The seller is in Europe and assures me it's a super 16 lens. If anyone has any information on it, like it's age and quality, it would be appreciated.
  • 0

#2 Tim Carroll

Tim Carroll
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2165 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago, Illinois

Posted 18 December 2006 - 10:46 PM

I have a chance to purchace this lens for what seems to be a reasonable price, but having never heard of it, I am not sure what to expect. The seller is in Europe and assures me it's a super 16 lens. If anyone has any information on it, like it's age and quality, it would be appreciated.


Mike,

Where in Ohio is N.Olmsted? I have family back there.

I have not seen the lens you are referring to, but my assumption (for what that's worth :P ) is that it is a Zeiss 12.5 - 75mm zoom (like the one pictured below) that someone has converted to Super 16.

Posted Image

That lens is a version that was similar to the Zeiss 10-100 T3.1 lens, in fact I think it was in the same housing. If it has the T* coating on the elements and has a decent conversion, it might make nice images. I had one of the 10-100 T3.1's with the T* coating and it was very nice.

Hope that gives you some idea,
-Tim
  • 0

#3 Mike Rizos

Mike Rizos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Other

Posted 18 December 2006 - 11:28 PM

Hi Tim, thanks for the info.
The seller only provided a small picture so far, but the lens looks identical to your picture. It must be a converted 12.5-75 then. I don't know if it has the T coating.

N. Olmsted is about 15 miles west of Cleveland.
  • 0

#4 Tim Carroll

Tim Carroll
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2165 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago, Illinois

Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:01 AM

N. Olmsted is about 15 miles west of Cleveland.


Then you're very close to Visual Products. They're a great source for motion picture equipment.

-Tim
  • 0

#5 Mike Rizos

Mike Rizos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Other

Posted 19 December 2006 - 10:34 PM

Hey Tim.

Visual Products is about a 30 min. drive frome here.
Where in Ohio are your relatives located? A couple of years ago, I met a gentleman who was a DoP, and had recently retired. His production company was called Movie Makers. I don't remember his first name, but his last name was Carroll !!! He thought highly of the Arriflex, and not much of the Bolex :blink: Does filmmaking run in your family?
  • 0

#6 Tim Carroll

Tim Carroll
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2165 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago, Illinois

Posted 19 December 2006 - 10:54 PM

Hey Tim.

Visual Products is about a 30 min. drive frome here.
Where in Ohio are your relatives located? A couple of years ago, I met a gentleman who was a DoP, and had recently retired. His production company was called Movie Makers. I don't remember his first name, but his last name was Carroll !!! He thought highly of the Arriflex, and not much of the Bolex :blink: Does filmmaking run in your family?


I've heard of that gentleman, but he is not related.

Nah, filmmaking is the furthest thing from my family roots. Grew up in Cincinnati where every male decedent of my maternal grandfather has an engineering degree (including me). After four years designing surgical instruments (surgical staplers for Ethicon in the late 1970's and early 1980's) I chucked it and went back to grad school and got my MFA. My family thought I was nuts. Probably still do.

Moved to Chicago, then on to New York City. Been working my way slowly back across the country since, first Chicago and now Portland.

Spent one season at the Cleveland Playhouse (my MFA was in Acting) back when they had an in house company of actors. Northeast Ohio was alot more to my liking than where I grew up. Far too conservative in the Southwest corner of the state.

-Tim
  • 0

#7 Mike Rizos

Mike Rizos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Other

Posted 19 December 2006 - 11:50 PM

Here's the lens. How much is a reasonable price for it?
Posted Image
  • 0

#8 Tim Carroll

Tim Carroll
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2165 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago, Illinois

Posted 20 December 2006 - 01:30 AM

Here's the lens. How much is a reasonable price for it?



Mike,

It is impossible to tell from that picture. The things I would want to know from the person selling it is what is the serial number, is it a T* coated lens (having the special Zeiss coating, which makes a big difference), are the lens elements pristine (no scratches, fungus or cleaning marks), whose conversion was used, and who did the conversion?

Am I assuming correctly that it still has the ARRI bayonet mount, and is linked up with an Aaton to ARRI bayonet adapter in the picture? Are you buying this to use with an Aaton?

I would want to know the answers to all those questions. If it has the Zeiss T* coating, has a higher serial number, has a good conversion (like an old Optex), the elements are pristine, and has the mount that you want, I could see it being worth a couple grand. Saw a really nice Zeiss 12-120 T*3.8, later serial number, pristine glass, I think Optex conversion, in PL mount, and it went for $2400.

-Tim
  • 0

#9 Mike Rizos

Mike Rizos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Other

Posted 20 December 2006 - 08:43 PM

The lens has a CA mount. I want to use it with a CP, so I would need to have the mount changed unless I can find an adapter if one exists.
I will ask all the details about the lens, and see what comes of it.

The seller is also selling the rest of the stuff in the picture.

Posted Image

The zoom is priced at 1,000 Euro, the Superspeeds 1,000-1,200 Euro each, the Nikons combined 1,000 Euro, and the Aaton adapters at 50 Euro each.
  • 0

#10 Ian Marks

Ian Marks
  • Guests

Posted 21 December 2006 - 04:37 PM

Is the the oft-rumored but never-seen C-mount to Aaton adapter in the top half of the picture, between the Zoom and the Superspeed?
  • 0

#11 Mike Rizos

Mike Rizos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 December 2006 - 08:43 PM

I was trying to figure out what that was! If it is, it's amazing it misses the mirror. The 10mm Switar or Angenieux might fit in there, but you'll have to unscrew the lens everytime you want to change focus.
  • 0

#12 Sam Wells

Sam Wells
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1751 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 December 2006 - 11:11 AM

Here's the lens. How much is a reasonable price for it?


As it's based on the Zeiss 12.5-75 I wouldn't touch it without testing first. "Sharp" but excessive flare.

-Sam Wells
  • 0

#13 Charlie Peich

Charlie Peich
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 238 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Chicago

Posted 24 December 2006 - 01:40 AM

is it a T* coated lens (having the special Zeiss coating, which makes a big difference)
As it's based on the Zeiss 12.5-75 I wouldn't touch it without testing first. "Sharp" but excessive flare.

The Zeiss 12.5-75 preceded the Zeiss 10-100 /T3.3 and was out of production long before the T* coatings were used. Zeiss was trying to compete with the very popular, at the time, angenieux 12-120 when they came out with their 10-100. The 10-100/T3.3 is also prone to excessive flare. One draw back to those earlier Zeiss zooms (until the series II T-2 10-100 lens) is the reversed travel of the "zoom" ring. Not the same direction as the more popular Angenieux zooms at that time, or just about any other cine zoom lenses. Just like Nikon's reversed direction of the focus ring as compared to almost all the other popular lenses in the world.

One other concern about the design of the 12.5-75 and the 10-100 T3.3 lens, there are nylon rollers in the lens that wear out after awhile. What you will see is a slight jump in focus, as in "goes out of focus then back into focus" when you change zoom direction. Example, zoom to the long end, focus, then when you start zooming back from the 84mm, the image will pop out and back into focus. It is mostly noticeable at the longer focal lengths. It won't happen all the time, just the time when you are rolling film. Sometimes hard to see while filming, but you'll see it in the "how come...?" room. If you just use the lens as a "variable prime?, this focus "pop" won't be an issue. Just remember to check the focus through the lens each time you change focal length. It won't matter what tape measurements you have made, this is an internal mechanical problem and only gets worse with time. This is based on personal experience.
  • 0

#14 Mike Rizos

Mike Rizos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Other

Posted 24 December 2006 - 12:58 PM

Well, I got some more info on the lens. The serial is 3967xxx which makes it an early one, and it doesn't have T* coating. The front and rear elements were replaced by Oberkochen in 1990. The seller believes all the elements were given modern coating then, although it is not written on the invoice. He reports he never had problems with flare. It was converted by Van Diemen in 1995. I checked their website, and they replace the zoom gearing during the conversion. The 10-100 seems to suffer from this problem too.

Now what's interesting is this lens ends up being T2.4. The original 12.5-75, as far as I can determine, is F2 or T2.5. With the conversion (1.12x), the lens should have ended up about T2.8. The only explaination that I can come up with, it that Zeiss or Van Diemen did recoated it when they serviced it, increasing it's T stop.

Thanks to everyone for their input.
  • 0


Willys Widgets

CineTape

FJS International, LLC

CineLab

Ritter Battery

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Glidecam

Opal

Aerial Filmworks

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

FJS International, LLC

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Metropolis Post

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Opal

Visual Products

CineLab

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Abel Cine