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16mm variable shutter cameras


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#1 adam berk

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 01:04 AM

So other than an NPR, or a spring driven bolex....are really any 16mm cameras available for under $5k with variable shutter?

thanks,
adam
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#2 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:04 AM

So other than an NPR, or a spring driven bolex....are really any 16mm cameras available for under $5k with variable shutter?

thanks,
adam


Russian 16 SP,
Russian Kinor-16 SX-1M

If you will need Kinor-16 SX-2M with variable angle of shitter disk, You can order to replace of transport mechanism and setup mechanism from Kinor-16 -1M version.
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#3 adam berk

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 08:21 AM

Russian 16 SP,
Russian Kinor-16 SX-1M

If you will need Kinor-16 SX-2M with variable angle of shitter disk, You can order to replace of transport mechanism and setup mechanism from Kinor-16 -1M version.



ahhh, the kinor, forgot about that one- thanks olex
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#4 Zachary Vex

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 09:33 AM

Eclair Cameflex CM3, which goes from 200 to 35 degrees.
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#5 Michael Ryan

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 10:57 AM

Hello All,

The Kodak Reflex Special. I was told they only made about 800 of these units in the '60s or '70s, but it's
a very good camera.


Mike86_1_b.jpg
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#6 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:07 PM

The Kodak Reflex Special. I was told they only made about 800 of these units in the '60s or '70s, but it's
a very good camera.


Then you might as well mention the Kodak Cine Special and Cine Special II.
Which the Reflex Special is the reflex version.
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#7 Herb Montes

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:44 PM

Pathe Reflex

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#8 James Erd

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 02:58 PM

Pathe Reflex

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Posted Image


Can you tell me more about the Pathe? It looks a bit on the early side to be Super 16.
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#9 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:05 PM

Can you tell me more about the Pathe? It looks a bit on the early side to be Super 16.


Not a super16 camera, but rather a super camera.

One can probably get a Mitchell 16 or a Maurer for under $5K.
Not that they'd be general pupose cameras thes days.
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#10 Michael Ryan

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 03:06 PM

Hello Leo,

I'm no expert on the Cine Special or the Reflex Special, but I'm fairly sure that these two cameras are not really related.

I'm always being told that the Cine Special (made in the '30s and '40s??) is the same as the Kodak Reflex Special. However, I don't think so. I have the Reflex Special (the exact camera in the photo in my last post) and I was told that Kodak actually based the camera on a 16mm Mitchell camera. I have seen the picture of the Mitchell and it looks very, very similar. The Reflex Special is a fairly large camera (tripod only) and the Cine Specials are small. My Reflex Special takes 100 ft rolls inside, 400 ft rolls (as the mag in the pictures shows) and I also have a 1200 ft mag. Comes with a 24 sync and varible speed motor as well. Along with 8 primes lenses.

Again, Leo, I may be wrong, but it just doesn't seem related in any way to the Cine Special.


Mike
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#11 Herb Montes

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 07:48 PM

Not a super16 camera, but rather a super camera.

One can probably get a Mitchell 16 or a Maurer for under $5K.
Not that they'd be general pupose cameras thes days.


True, that's the name on the camera, a "Webo Super 16". It's about circa 1950's or so and is not Super16mm. I don't even know if these cameras can be converted to Super 16mm because of the pelicle. I do know of one American owner who had his converted to 9.5mm. This camera does have a lot of the features of a reflex Bolex but cannot disengage the spring drive.
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#12 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 03:50 AM

Can you tell me more about the Pathe? It looks a bit on the early side to be Super 16.


You need Super 16 with variable angle of shutter ?

This technical possiblities have Arri SR3 camera, but, this is expensive camera.

The other cheap idea:
The my colleague from St-Petersburg sell Kinor-16 SX-2M with Super 16, Arri PL lens mount and crystal synch motor.
You can ask about replace of transport mechanism of this camera from Kinor-16 SX-2M version on Kinor-16 SX-1M version with variable angle of shutter disk. And you can receive Super 16 camera with variable angle of shutter disk, Arri PL lens mount, multi speed crystal sync motor, smal size and weight.
Kinor have registration pin and camera have high technical characteristics.
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#13 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 01:58 PM

True, that's the name on the camera, a "Webo Super 16". It's about circa 1950's or so and is not Super16mm. I don't even know if these cameras can be converted to Super 16mm because of the pelicle. I do know of one American owner who had his converted to 9.5mm. This camera does have a lot of the features of a reflex Bolex but cannot disengage the spring drive.


Are you certain it was a convervision?
The Webos were availiable in 9.5mm and 16mm.

later models had an electric motor, so they must be able to disengage the spring.
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#14 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 03:30 PM

Hello Leo,

I'm no expert on the Cine Special or the Reflex Special, but I'm fairly sure that these two cameras are not really related.

I'm always being told that the Cine Special (made in the '30s and '40s??) is the same as the Kodak Reflex Special. However, I don't think so. I have the Reflex Special (the exact camera in the photo in my last post) and I was told that Kodak actually based the camera on a 16mm Mitchell camera. I have seen the picture of the Mitchell and it looks very, very similar. The Reflex Special is a fairly large camera (tripod only) and the Cine Specials are small. My Reflex Special takes 100 ft rolls inside, 400 ft rolls (as the mag in the pictures shows) and I also have a 1200 ft mag. Comes with a 24 sync and varible speed motor as well. Along with 8 primes lenses.

Again, Leo, I may be wrong, but it just doesn't seem related in any way to the Cine Special.
Mike


Cine Specials aren't really small. They're big heavy bricks. It's possible to hand hold one, but it's more of a tripod camera. Replace the 100' mag with the 200' and put on a motor, it's tripod only.

The box design and the door are are similar between the reflex special and the Cine Special.
The Cine Special has a single claw pulldown, the Mitchell has a double claw and a registration pin.
What does the Reflex have?
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#15 Herb Montes

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Posted 27 December 2006 - 11:12 PM

Are you certain it was a convervision?
The Webos were availiable in 9.5mm and 16mm.

later models had an electric motor, so they must be able to disengage the spring.


Yes, it was a 16mm but he wanted a 9.5mm model which are harder to get so he had his modified. He showed it to me. The newer Pathe PR/BTL could take electric motors as well as 400' magazines.
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#16 Charlie Peich

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Posted 28 December 2006 - 12:46 AM

[quote name='Leo Anthony Vale' date='Dec 27 2006, 12:58 PM' post='144710']
Are you certain it was a convervision?
The Webos were availiable in 9.5mm and 16mm.

later models had an electric motor, so they must be able to disengage the spring.
[/quote

Leo...
The Pathe cameras are just like the Filmos and Eyemos when you attach the electric motors. Before attaching the motor, you must run the spring drive down. There is no way to disengage the spring drive.

From a Pathe Reflex 16 Camera instruction manual about the variable speed 8/80 (fps) Electric Motor Drive:

1. Before coupling the motor to the camera, run the motor down completely and then rewind it slightly by giving it one or two turns of the winding handle.

2. Unfold the base so that it is at right angles to the motor.

3. Place the camera on its side, cover down and install the motor making sure that..
A. The motor drive coupling is in line with the camera rewind handle shaft.
B. The motor release lever is above the camera release button.
C. The hole in the base is in line with the tripod socket on the camera.

4. Depress the camera release button until the rewind handle shaft engages in the motor drive coupleing.

5. Press the base against the bottom of the camera; at the same time put the fastening screw through the
hole in the base into the tripod socket. Tighten with a coin or screw driver.

When using, Pathe Professional Reflex 16 with motor, place the claw in the right posistion. Before loading, place the lever of the claw in the lower right quarter of the circle, i. e. in a posistion corresponding the figure 4 or 5 on a clock.


Forward operation:
Set the desired camera speed on the camera speed indicator as closely as possible (for example, set the
12 fps half way between 8 fps and 16 fps). With the motor on, adjust the motor speed with the rheostat on the end of the motor so that the exact camera speed desired appears on the tachometer. The graduated scale engraved on the front edge of some motors is to be used only as a rough guide. Continuous run can be obtained by turning the motor release lever clockwise.


There's isn't much more about operating the motor, but it's pretty simple, just like the Arri S variable speed motor.

The Pathe motor would run in reverse when you needed to rewind the film to "obtain a mix or lap dissolve effect or superimposed exposures". There is a frame counter on the camera the indicates the number of frames that have been rewound. Just like on the Arri S. However, you could only run the Pathe in reverse until the spring wound up. But, Pathe has a warning about rewinding:

NOTE: During the rewinding operation the camera spring motor is wound. This means that for the subsequent forward run there will be a slight increase in speed - but only for the rewound footage. This very slight increase in speed is insignificant when making lap dissolves; however, it is important when making superimposed exposure. To keep an exact constant speed superimposed exposure should be made only with the camera spring motor.

So, just use the electric motor on the Pathe in the forward direction only, do your lap dissolves and double exposures in post. Anyone out there have this camera and motor combo? If so, are you shooting with it?
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