Jump to content


Photo

first time B&W 16mm shoot


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Matty Wakai

Matty Wakai
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 28 December 2006 - 11:36 AM

hi guys,
have been reading for along time now. i like it here!
i am shooting my friend's final assignment for film school. i havent shot film as cameraman before, but have been working in lighting and camera for last 3 years, but my main concern is what happens after the film is exposed, after we get it developed, we do the telecine but what is the differences between the formats of tape? and what after that? after it is edited, what normally happens?
if someone could condense a normal workflow, and put me in the right direction so i can continue researching, that'd be awesome..
also, we want to do it black and white, but my friend recomended me, as a first time cameraman, to shoot colour, then go B&W in post. any tips for that?
hope everyone had a good holiday.
peace

Edited by matt wakai, 28 December 2006 - 11:40 AM.

  • 0

#2 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19768 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 28 December 2006 - 11:38 AM

You have to work backwards from what are the final formats for presentation/distribution to answer those questions. 16mm b&w print? 35mm b&w print? 16x9 HDTV? 4x3 or 16x9 PAL/NTSC?
  • 0

#3 Matty Wakai

Matty Wakai
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 28 December 2006 - 11:54 AM

You have to work backwards from what are the final formats for presentation/distribution to answer those questions. 16mm b&w print? 35mm b&w print? 16x9 HDTV? 4x3 or 16x9 PAL/NTSC?

well, i will have to talk to the director properly about presentation, but it will need to be submited for examination. last time we discused it, we decided on 4x3, more than likely PAL. but my confusion comes in at the point after transfer to telecine, when transfering say to miniDV, how much information is lost? and after it is on miniDV tapes, we then take that to edit, then colour correction? what are the different options available (for inbetween and finished product)?
peace
  • 0

#4 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19768 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 28 December 2006 - 12:26 PM

well, i will have to talk to the director properly about presentation, but it will need to be submited for examination. last time we discused it, we decided on 4x3, more than likely PAL. but my confusion comes in at the point after transfer to telecine, when transfering say to miniDV, how much information is lost? and after it is on miniDV tapes, we then take that to edit, then colour correction? what are the different options available (for inbetween and finished product)?
peace



Depends on how you finish the project. Will the original transfers to Mini-DV be used as the masters for the final video image? A professional production might, for example, transfer to Digital Betacam and make a Mini-DV copy to edit from, then take the final EDL to an online bay and conform from the Digital Betacam originals to create a final edited master. Then there might be a tape-to-tape color-correction session in a DaVinci suite to create a color-corrected master.

That's one method among many... you could all of the work using the Mini-DV transfers, digitize at full resolution into your editing system, color-correct in the editing system, and output a finished master to whatever tape format you want to hook-up to the computer, maybe Mini-DV again.

Either way, with Digital Betacam or Mini-DV, you are talking about finishing to PAL? 4x3 PAL or 16x9 PAL?

Mini-DV is fairly compressed with 4:2:0 color-subsampling in PAL, compared to Digital Betacam, which is 4:2:2 with less compression.

You could also cut the 16mm negative using the EDL as a guide, answer print, make an timed IP or low-con print or fine-grain (if b&w) and then do a final telecine session from that to whatever format you want, including HD.
  • 0

#5 Matty Wakai

Matty Wakai
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 28 December 2006 - 09:13 PM

so in terms of cost, whats the difference between miniDV and digibeta? director wants to use either finalcut pro or premiere to edit, and then do some compositing in shake.
we'll be going 4x3 PAL.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP, I'D BE SO LOST OTHERWISE!!!
peace
  • 0

#6 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19768 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 28 December 2006 - 09:21 PM

I don't really have the prices of things, being a DP who doesn't pay for anything!

Digital Betacam tapes are more expensive obviously, but it shouldn't make the telecine session cost much more once you buy the tapes. The problem is whether you can get a Digital Betacam deck into the editing room; these days, you might want the footage delivered in a data format on hard disks and forget tape altogether. But now you should be talking to a post person, not me...
  • 0

#7 Matty Wakai

Matty Wakai
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • 2nd Assistant Camera

Posted 28 December 2006 - 09:24 PM

so in terms of cost, whats the difference between miniDV and digibeta? director wants to use either finalcut pro or premiere to edit, and then do some compositing in shake.
we'll be going 4x3 PAL.
also, the compression is all real-time right? compression refers to the colour/image quality only? does a 60min tape hold 60mins of footage?
THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP, I'D BE SO LOST OTHERWISE!!!
peace

I don't really have the prices of things, being a DP who doesn't pay for anything!

Digital Betacam tapes are more expensive obviously, but it shouldn't make the telecine session cost much more once you buy the tapes. The problem is whether you can get a Digital Betacam deck into the editing room; these days, you might want the footage delivered in a data format on hard disks and forget tape altogether. But now you should be talking to a post person, not me...


hmmm... not having to pay for this all? it'd be nice to be in your shoes mr. Mullen, thanks so much for guidance..
peace
  • 0

#8 Jon Kukla

Jon Kukla
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Other

Posted 29 December 2006 - 02:06 AM

If you want to discuss all of this in depth, with cost information that is accurate, then you should call the lab. They want to help you, ultimately, and usually someone around is happy to answer all of these questions.
  • 0


Ritter Battery

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Opal

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

CineTape

CineLab

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

FJS International, LLC

FJS International, LLC

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

Opal

Glidecam

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

Technodolly

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

Ritter Battery