Jump to content


Photo

Gear for 814XL-S


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Jim Hoene

Jim Hoene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Other

Posted 01 January 2007 - 08:10 PM

I want to film with a Canon 814XL-S.

? What tripod fits this?

? What should I use to record sound?

? How should I edit the film and soundtrack?

? Which is the best film stock for color and for b&w?

? I will be using natural light most of the time and then minimal lighting otherwise.

? I would like to have both music and regular sound (dialogue, ambient noise)


Thanks for your ideas!
  • 0

#2 ken wood

ken wood
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Other

Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:14 PM

I think any standard tripod will work. I have the 814e and it works on all my 35mm tripods.

For sound I am using Sony's MZ RH1 HiMD minidisc and mics that I made using electret mics. Minidiscs are fairly cheap. I paid $325 for this one and the 1GB optical media disc can be had for $5-$7.
Editing software is the expensive part. Sony now has professional rated software but it costs an arm and leg;
Sound Forge Editing s/w is about $275, and Sony Vegas +DVD starts at $575 unless you are a student and can prove it.

Of course, there are many other softwares available, especially if you are using a Mac.

I can't help you on choosing film stock. Suggest you go to Kodak.com and poke around.
  • 0

#3 Jim Hoene

Jim Hoene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Other

Posted 03 January 2007 - 09:39 PM

I think any standard tripod will work. I have the 814e and it works on all my 35mm tripods.

For sound I am using Sony's MZ RH1 HiMD minidisc and mics that I made using electret mics. Minidiscs are fairly cheap. I paid $325 for this one and the 1GB optical media disc can be had for $5-$7.
Editing software is the expensive part. Sony now has professional rated software but it costs an arm and leg;
Sound Forge Editing s/w is about $275, and Sony Vegas +DVD starts at $575 unless you are a student and can prove it.

Of course, there are many other softwares available, especially if you are using a Mac.

I can't help you on choosing film stock. Suggest you go to Kodak.com and poke around.


Is that the Autozoom Electronic? That is an interesting camera. How do you find it?
  • 0

#4 Sean McHenry

Sean McHenry
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Other
  • Hilliard, Ohio

Posted 03 January 2007 - 11:28 PM

Owning several Canons now I can say that the 814 XLS, 814 Auto Zoom and the 1014 XLS all can use standard tripods.

Lots of folks are buying Sony MiniDisc recorders, MP3 Recorders and the new lines of memory card recorders like the Zoom H4 (google that one, it's cool). Others are using DAT and portable DAT recorders while others are actually using other MiniDV camcorders to grab 48KHz clean audio. All are viable.

You will hear quite a bit about Crystal Sync and the option to add it to the 814 and 1014 series as well as many others. This device will lock the cameras frame rate to a particular audio recorder like the professional but aging Nagra or the Sony version (often called a SNAGRA) audio recorder.

Honestly, anything that can record sound works BUT - when it comes time to sync that separate audio track to a different frame rate video track, that's where the issues of drifting audio and lip sync get tricky. Unless the dialog is more like a monologue, it really isn't all that hard to sync the audio back up for a short piece. If you want to do a 2 hour epic, get a DAT and a Crystal Sync unit.

Negative films have a greater latitude but need a positive print made before you can show it directly. If you want to edit it in an NLE (any NLE works) you will need the footage transfered to tape to digitize into your NLE. It needs laid to tape with the correct "pulldown" taking the 24 full frame film footage and making it 30i digital video. You can have it laid to tape as negative and flip it in your NLE, or better, have it flipped when it is initially laid to tape by whoever is putting it on tape for you.

OR, you can use films that are reversal films meaning they are positives immediately after processing. They are easier to turn around to a viewable film but they are more picky about exposure.

I love my 814 AZ and my 814 XLS. You can do neat stuff with them. Look for Super8 Today magazine. It is inexpensive and chock full of good stuff for Super 8 folks.

Happy shooting.

Sean McHenry
  • 0

#5 Jim Hoene

Jim Hoene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Other

Posted 04 January 2007 - 01:51 PM

Owning several Canons now I can say that the 814 XLS, 814 Auto Zoom and the 1014 XLS all can use standard tripods.

Lots of folks are buying Sony MiniDisc recorders, MP3 Recorders and the new lines of memory card recorders like the Zoom H4 (google that one, it's cool). Others are using DAT and portable DAT recorders while others are actually using other MiniDV camcorders to grab 48KHz clean audio. All are viable.

You will hear quite a bit about Crystal Sync and the option to add it to the 814 and 1014 series as well as many others. This device will lock the cameras frame rate to a particular audio recorder like the professional but aging Nagra or the Sony version (often called a SNAGRA) audio recorder.

Honestly, anything that can record sound works BUT - when it comes time to sync that separate audio track to a different frame rate video track, that's where the issues of drifting audio and lip sync get tricky. Unless the dialog is more like a monologue, it really isn't all that hard to sync the audio back up for a short piece. If you want to do a 2 hour epic, get a DAT and a Crystal Sync unit.

Negative films have a greater latitude but need a positive print made before you can show it directly. If you want to edit it in an NLE (any NLE works) you will need the footage transfered to tape to digitize into your NLE. It needs laid to tape with the correct "pulldown" taking the 24 full frame film footage and making it 30i digital video. You can have it laid to tape as negative and flip it in your NLE, or better, have it flipped when it is initially laid to tape by whoever is putting it on tape for you.

OR, you can use films that are reversal films meaning they are positives immediately after processing. They are easier to turn around to a viewable film but they are more picky about exposure.

I love my 814 AZ and my 814 XLS. You can do neat stuff with them. Look for Super8 Today magazine. It is inexpensive and chock full of good stuff for Super 8 folks.

Happy shooting.

Sean McHenry


Thanks that is good info, What do you think of the 814XL-S versus the 1014XL-s, I know it has the 10x zoom but what other neat stuff can they do that a 814 can't?

I want to shoot independant films of a feature length so it sounds to me that I need the crystal sync feature and a DAT. However, isn't DAT kind of being phased out? What do you think about something like the Marantz PMD 660 which I guess is a memory card format recorder. I have seen the Zoom H4 and it looks kind of small for what I think I want to do although very cool.

I asked about the 814 versus the 1014 because I want to shoot with 2 cameras or have a backup/second unit camera and the 814's could save 500 or 600 bucks over a couple of 1014's. You also mentioned standard tripods, what is an example and what do they cost approximately. Thanks again!
  • 0

#6 jacob thomas

jacob thomas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Other

Posted 04 January 2007 - 11:11 PM

Thanks that is good info, What do you think of the 814XL-S versus the 1014XL-s, I know it has the 10x zoom but what other neat stuff can they do that a 814 can't?

I asked about the 814 versus the 1014 because I want to shoot with 2 cameras or have a backup/second unit camera and the 814's could save 500 or 600 bucks over a couple of 1014's. You also mentioned standard tripods, what is an example and what do they cost approximately. Thanks again!


The 1014 has a lap dissolve function which the 814 does not. I think that's the only difference other than the lens.
  • 0

#7 Jim Hoene

Jim Hoene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Other

Posted 05 January 2007 - 11:54 AM

The 1014 has a lap dissolve function which the 814 does not. I think that's the only difference other than the lens.


Yeah, and I've heard that lap dissolves can be done in post. Does that usually work out ok?
  • 0

#8 jacob thomas

jacob thomas
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Other

Posted 05 January 2007 - 05:41 PM

Yeah, and I've heard that lap dissolves can be done in post. Does that usually work out ok?


Having tried to use the lap dissolve feature for a project last year where I thought it would be interesting to do everything in camera, I would never use it again for a serious shoot (unless randomness and unpredictability were the goal).

By dissolving from one shot to another you are potentially ruining the first shot with a bad take of the second, timing is also an issue, basically you have to shoot the two shots consecutively and get them perfect first try.

None of these problems are an issue if you do it on a nle, sure it will look very very slightly different but this is more than compensated for by the greater control.
  • 0

#9 Sean McHenry

Sean McHenry
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 175 posts
  • Other
  • Hilliard, Ohio

Posted 07 January 2007 - 05:39 PM

Yeah, what they said. Lap dissolves are the only things really missing from the 814, and the slightly longer zoom. The C8 Wide Angle adapter works on both if you need to go really wide. Standard tripods for shooting at this level for me are things like Bogen 3211 sticks and 501 or 503 heads are nice, simple and light but fairly smooth.

Personally, I have an almost perfect 814 and a running 1014 with glass that's going bad. Something wrong with the lens on the 1014. I need to send it off to Bernie or a lens person, or both. Then again I got it at a good price for a camera with a south-bound lens.

I think the 814s will be just fine for you. Again, if you don't subscribe, get Super 8 Today. Great info on shooting Super 8 in these more modern video times.

Happy shooting. If you need info I can help with feel free to e-mail direct.

Sean(at)DeepBlueEdit.com
http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com
  • 0

#10 Stig Lundberg

Stig Lundberg
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Other
  • G

Posted 07 January 2007 - 06:53 PM

Besides the lens and the lap dissolve the 1014 also have the cool mirrored End warning in the viewfinder, blinking the last 10 seconds and stable as the film reaches the end.
These are some of the most reliable Super 8 cameras around, and the angled boom mike makes a superb handle, easy to carry around. Internal lightmeter gives a slightly brighter image than comparable Nizo or Beaulieu cameras. The focus funktion is one of the most accurate and easy to use on any Super I've ever seen. The optical quality of the lens is good but not like the best Nizos Schneider K, or Beaulieus and Bauer 715's Angenieux 6-90.

Greetings
Stig
  • 0

#11 Jim Hoene

Jim Hoene
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 January 2007 - 01:48 PM

Yeah, what they said. Lap dissolves are the only things really missing from the 814, and the slightly longer zoom. The C8 Wide Angle adapter works on both if you need to go really wide. Standard tripods for shooting at this level for me are things like Bogen 3211 sticks and 501 or 503 heads are nice, simple and light but fairly smooth.

Personally, I have an almost perfect 814 and a running 1014 with glass that's going bad. Something wrong with the lens on the 1014. I need to send it off to Bernie or a lens person, or both. Then again I got it at a good price for a camera with a south-bound lens.

I think the 814s will be just fine for you. Again, if you don't subscribe, get Super 8 Today. Great info on shooting Super 8 in these more modern video times.

Happy shooting. If you need info I can help with feel free to e-mail direct.

Thanks to all who responded!
Sean(at)DeepBlueEdit.com
http://www.DeepBlueEdit.com


  • 0


CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Tai Audio

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Rig Wheels Passport

CineTape

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Willys Widgets

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

Visual Products

Abel Cine

CineLab

CineTape

The Slider

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Metropolis Post

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Opal