Jump to content


Photo

Which Camera on a low budget for a Ski Movie?


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 Easton Sheahan-Lee

Easton Sheahan-Lee
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:03 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm making a 35-40 minute long ski movie in 16mm however we have used near to all of our budget purchasing film (Kodak 7201). Now I am looking to get a good camera to operate in cold conditions UNDER 300 USD. Any suggestions? I have looked at teh Krasnogorsk 3 alot however peopl have reported alot of problems like the perf not catching causing jumpy film. Takes cannot be re-done skiing so I need a reliable camera.

Thanks!
  • 0

#2 Sir Alvin Ekarma

Sir Alvin Ekarma
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 209 posts
  • Director

Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:09 PM

How about a Scoopic M/MS? You can get those for a good price on Ebay. You'll be outside so f stop won't be a problem and it's pretty much idiot proof when it comes to loading. I had one and it never let me down.
  • 0

#3 Easton Sheahan-Lee

Easton Sheahan-Lee
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:14 PM

I've been trying to find a scoopic but there haven't been any other than few for a couple thousand dollars.
  • 0

#4 Easton Sheahan-Lee

Easton Sheahan-Lee
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:27 PM

As well if I am forced to go with the K3, is there any way to make it more reliable.
  • 0

#5 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:29 PM

...we have used near to all of our budget purchasing film (Kodak 7201). Now I am looking to get a good camera...


Interesting workflow...but anyway

I wouldn't recommend the Scoopic if you're doing a lot of handheld stuff on the slopes. It has a nice little handle on it with the run button next to the thumb, but it's really top heavy and kinda awkward to operate and watch through the viewfinder at the same time. Also, you never know how good a lens you're going to get with a Scoopic.

You can find Bolex's on eBay for real cheap as well.
  • 0

#6 stephen defilippi

stephen defilippi
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 45 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:59 PM

hi, have you considered a rental? You could get a decent lightweight & reliable 16mm camera for about that. Cheers
  • 0

#7 Dan Goulder

Dan Goulder
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1259 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 04 January 2007 - 06:15 PM

I see a Bolex in your future. It's cheap, easy, light, and practical for the ski slopes. You can get good results with it, too.
  • 0

#8 Easton Sheahan-Lee

Easton Sheahan-Lee
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 04 January 2007 - 07:35 PM

Interesting workflow...but anyway


We haven't already purchased it, we have worked out all of our budgeting through spreadsheets already including travel costs, accomidations, film EVERYTHING. With film being so damn expensive you can actually probably run over the cost of the camera 100x's buying film.

Rental is out of the picture since it is over a whole winter with a varying schedule.
  • 0

#9 Sir Alvin Ekarma

Sir Alvin Ekarma
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 209 posts
  • Director

Posted 04 January 2007 - 08:29 PM

I've been trying to find a scoopic but there haven't been any other than few for a couple thousand dollars.


Are you sure abou that? There always seems to be at least one Scoopic M or MS listed weekly at a reasonable price (under $500) but if you need a camera ASAP, I could see how you could be stuck. If you had time, I'd say get some auction sniping software to get a deal on a Scoopy but if not, get a bolex. Only get a K3 if you can get one that's already been upgraded.
  • 0

#10 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 04 January 2007 - 09:34 PM

I'm making a 35-40 minute long ski movie in 16mm however we have used near to all of our budget purchasing film (Kodak 7201). Now I am looking to get a good camera to operate in cold conditions UNDER 300 USD. Any suggestions?


The other canadate that comes to mind when you are thinking reliable is of course my favorite camera, the filmo. They are made to stand up to batlefield conditions and if the lubrication is down with care should be ale to handle the cold without problems. (you may want to use VERY LIGHT synthetic Oil, but your camera tech can advise.

The Filmo Does not have TTL focus and framing, but if you are actually trying to shoot and SKi you will be too busy to try to do that anyway.... The sping motor also means that batteries are not a concern. You will of course need a good lightmeter and be able to perset the focus your expected shot needs.

Don't be too quick to write off the K3, like the saying goes some folks swear by them, and others swear AT them. You need to get one that has been gone over by a qualified Tech who can read Russian.
  • 0

#11 steve hyde

steve hyde
  • Sustaining Members
  • 446 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Seattle

Posted 05 January 2007 - 09:00 PM

...I used a Filmo with 7201 in the Peruvian Andes a few months ago. I shot in bad weather above 5000m. I am happy with the results although I had to rely heavily on a wide angle lens....almost exclusively (angeniuex 10mm retrofocus).

Steve

...I used a Filmo with 7201 in the Peruvian Andes a few months ago. I shot in bad weather above 5000m. I am happy with the results although I had to rely heavily on a wide angle lens....almost exclusively (angeniuex 10mm retrofocus).

The guys I know that shoot alot of skiing (for Warren Miller etc.) say that Arri S series cameras are the best low cost camera for these kinds of projects.

Personally, If I was shooting skiing I would use a Beaulieu super 8 and shoot at 70fps..

Steve


  • 0

#12 Olex Kalynychenko

Olex Kalynychenko
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine

Posted 06 January 2007 - 04:34 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm making a 35-40 minute long ski movie in 16mm however we have used near to all of our budget purchasing film (Kodak 7201). Now I am looking to get a good camera to operate in cold conditions UNDER 300 USD. Any suggestions? I have looked at teh Krasnogorsk 3 alot however peopl have reported alot of problems like the perf not catching causing jumpy film. Takes cannot be re-done skiing so I need a reliable camera.

Thanks!


Krasnogersk-3 very reliable camera for shooting with low temperature.
I use K-3 with -20 degree.
Other idea - use Kransogrosk-1 ( 2 ) camera with prime wide angle lens 12.5 mm.
But, all krasnorgosk cameras have spring motor and not work more 25 sec without re-loading of spring.

If you wish set camera on hard hat, i can recommend very small size russian cameras Kiev-16 E.
This 16 mm reflex cine camera with C-mount lens ( 20 mm ), 100 ft daylight spools and electrical motor.
The camera have small size and weight.

Other idea, use of russian Alpha-16 camera with spring motor. This is C-mount camera with semi-transparent mirror, have small weight.
If you take away of semi-transparetnt mirror, you can have direct film track.
  • 0

#13 Jonathan Bowerbank

Jonathan Bowerbank
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2815 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • San Francisco, CA

Posted 06 January 2007 - 04:47 AM

We haven't already purchased it, we have worked out all of our budgeting through spreadsheets


Ahhh, ok, makes sense

:)
  • 0

#14 Easton Sheahan-Lee

Easton Sheahan-Lee
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 06 January 2007 - 07:26 PM

Heres another good question, I am also considering shooting a short within the near future, in terms of sync sound what type of camera are we talking?
  • 0

#15 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 06 January 2007 - 09:44 PM

The cheapest sync-sound 16mm camera quiet enough for recording sound tend to be the 1960's era cameras like the Arri-16BL, CP16, Eclair NPR, Eclair ACL...

Next generation was in the 1970's, like the Arri-SR1 and Aaton-LTR, and these tend to be more expensive.

Don't know what Russian-made cameras fall into this category.
  • 0

#16 Olex Kalynychenko

Olex Kalynychenko
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine

Posted 07 January 2007 - 04:26 AM

The cheapest sync-sound 16mm camera quiet enough for recording sound tend to be the 1960's era cameras like the Arri-16BL, CP16, Eclair NPR, Eclair ACL...

Next generation was in the 1970's, like the Arri-SR1 and Aaton-LTR, and these tend to be more expensive.

Don't know what Russian-made cameras fall into this category.


The russian 16 mm professional cine cameras
Kinor-16 SX-1M
Kinor-16 SX-2M
Kinor-16 R ( 4KSR )
Kinor-16-8R
16SP
2SR
RUS
  • 0

#17 Dennis Kisilyov

Dennis Kisilyov
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts
  • Other

Posted 07 January 2007 - 05:14 AM

Hi everyone,

I'm making a 35-40 minute long ski movie in 16mm however we have used near to all of our budget purchasing film (Kodak 7201). Now I am looking to get a good camera to operate in cold conditions UNDER 300 USD. Any suggestions? I have looked at teh Krasnogorsk 3 alot however peopl have reported alot of problems like the perf not catching causing jumpy film. Takes cannot be re-done skiing so I need a reliable camera.

Thanks!


K-3 and Scoopics sell on ebay for about 300-500USD.
Last few I was watching the Scoopic-M sold for 177 winning bid, while MS went for about 440USD from the "I-sold-it" lister.

Here are two more current ones.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=330070853912

http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=160071059954
  • 0

#18 Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Thanasis Diamantopoulos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 99 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • greece

Posted 07 January 2007 - 08:46 AM

The russian 16 mm professional cine cameras
Kinor-16 SX-1M
Kinor-16 SX-2M
Kinor-16 R ( 4KSR )
Kinor-16-8R
16SP
2SR
RUS


Hi OLEX
Happy new year to you and to all

I have never used a kinor 16 sx-1m or 2m camera but i know that the sound that comes out of the camera it is over 50 db how synk sound is that? NPR ,CP,ACL,BL you can get origonal sound from the interiors and having a lot of problems specialy from old cameras like that . I know that kinors are crystal sync but for sync sound a camera must be blimbed.


Hi OLEX
Happy new year to you and to all

I have never used a kinor 16 sx-1m or 2m camera but i know that the sound that comes out of the camera it is over 50 db how synk sound is that? NPR ,CP,ACL,BL you can get origonal sound from the interiors and having a lot of problems specialy from old cameras like that . I know that kinors are crystal sync but for sync sound a camera must be blimbed. Correct me if i am wrong


  • 0

#19 Olex Kalynychenko

Olex Kalynychenko
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine

Posted 07 January 2007 - 02:37 PM

Hi OLEX
Happy new year to you and to all

I have never used a kinor 16 sx-1m or 2m camera but i know that the sound that comes out of the camera it is over 50 db how synk sound is that? NPR ,CP,ACL,BL you can get origonal sound from the interiors and having a lot of problems specialy from old cameras like that . I know that kinors are crystal sync but for sync sound a camera must be blimbed.


I don't know about 50 Db.

The user manual of Kinor-16 camera wrote :
" noise - not more 42 Db".
The good serviced and adjusted camera can have less noise.
I can set additional noise protection cover inside of body of camera too.
You canuse additional outside sound blimp too.
I don't have special device for measuring of noise, thats' why don't can give you real volume.
The original 29EPSS motor of Kinor-16 camera have analog system of speed stabilization, this is not crystal sync or XTALL speed control.
The original electroncis have precision of speed control 2.5% and have Pilot-Signal generator for sound recoder with Pilot Signal speed control ( like NAGRA ).
If you need crystal sync speed motor, not problem, this is possible. The new version of motor electronics have microprocessor PID control ( not a simple XTALL control ) with high power output stage and many additional service function ( digital film counter, mirror disk parking, low speed test run, adjust of phase of speed, remote control and other ).

If you need high quality sync sound recoding at shooting area, i recommend use of Arri 16 SR3 or Arri 416 cameras. But, the good idea to compare of price of cameras too.
The one fiber screen of 416 have price near 1000 euros only.
  • 0

#20 Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Thanasis Diamantopoulos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 99 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • greece

Posted 07 January 2007 - 04:50 PM

I don't know about 50 Db.

The user manual of Kinor-16 camera wrote :
" noise - not more 42 Db".
The good serviced and adjusted camera can have less noise.
I can set additional noise protection cover inside of body of camera too.
You canuse additional outside sound blimp too.
I don't have special device for measuring of noise, thats' why don't can give you real volume.
The original 29EPSS motor of Kinor-16 camera have analog system of speed stabilization, this is not crystal sync or XTALL speed control.
The original electroncis have precision of speed control 2.5% and have Pilot-Signal generator for sound recoder with Pilot Signal speed control ( like NAGRA ).
If you need crystal sync speed motor, not problem, this is possible. The new version of motor electronics have microprocessor PID control ( not a simple XTALL control ) with high power output stage and many additional service function ( digital film counter, mirror disk parking, low speed test run, adjust of phase of speed, remote control and other ).

If you need high quality sync sound recoding at shooting area, i recommend use of Arri 16 SR3 or Arri 416 cameras. But, the good idea to compare of price of cameras too.
The one fiber screen of 416 have price near 1000 euros only.


Even 42 db is noisier than npr acl ,cp ,or even an old bl thats the right comparison and i was talking about camera noise. Even using a crystal sync motor you can not minimize the noise. I am not against the russian cameras i know how great images they create. I am looking now to purchaze a kinor 35h.
  • 0


Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Abel Cine

CineLab

Aerial Filmworks

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Wooden Camera

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

The Slider

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Glidecam

Metropolis Post

Paralinx LLC

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Abel Cine

Glidecam

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

The Slider

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Technodolly

Rig Wheels Passport

CineTape

CineLab

rebotnix Technologies

Visual Products