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BUCKET PROCESSING??


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#1 stephen defilippi

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 01:02 PM

I can't find any threads about this. Has anyone ever done home processing of black and white film.

A film maker I met in Montreal told me about a guy he knows who does this all the time, and he called it Bucket Processing. He dumps the film into a big bucket in a darkroom. He then agitates it and "thumps" it to rise the bubbles. I sounded interested.

Probably scratches the heck out of the film though.

thanks
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#2 Nick Mulder

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:58 PM

I can't find any threads about this. Has anyone ever done home processing of black and white film.

A film maker I met in Montreal told me about a guy he knows who does this all the time, and he called it Bucket Processing. He dumps the film into a big bucket in a darkroom. He then agitates it and "thumps" it to rise the bubbles. I sounded interested.

Probably scratches the heck out of the film though.

thanks


I use a Lomo tank.

Olex, a forum member has this website which has some good info:

http://www.geocities...netank/tank.htm

There are a few of these on eBay at the moment i think ... A seller called 'siberian-shop' is trusty as I've bought off him previously and it arrived fine - you can get up to 100' length tanks but they are rare, the easiest large on to get is the 2x50' which is 100' anyway but with a cut half way ... the 33' is good if you're doing animation and can work out 33' daylights or whatever, but otherwise it takes at least three times as long to develop the same amount as the other two

There is good info here for reversal processing:

http://lavender.fort...sdeveloper.html

Otherwise for neg its just the same as for stills...

A bucket will work also, but you can get uneven processing and scratches - it also takes a lot more chemistry to fill up ($$$ and space)
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#3 Richardson Leao

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 12:16 AM

I use a Lomo tank.

You can see some home processing (bw and color negs, the color home processing was done using c41) from my current project:

http://jcsmr/~rleao/dogheart.html

i use a lomo tank and a g3.

I think the bucket for small lengths would be OK but for 30m of film you'd probably have it very inconsistent as the chemistry would not reach the emulsian uniformely.


Olex, a forum member has this website which has some good info:

http://www.geocities...netank/tank.htm

There are a few of these on eBay at the moment i think ... A seller called 'siberian-shop' is trusty as I've bought off him previously and it arrived fine - you can get up to 100' length tanks but they are rare, the easiest large on to get is the 2x50' which is 100' anyway but with a cut half way ... the 33' is good if you're doing animation and can work out 33' daylights or whatever, but otherwise it takes at least three times as long to develop the same amount as the other two

There is good info here for reversal processing:

http://lavender.fort...sdeveloper.html

Otherwise for neg its just the same as for stills...

A bucket will work also, but you can get uneven processing and scratches - it also takes a lot more chemistry to fill up ($$$ and space)


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#4 Daniel Stigler

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 01:02 AM

A film maker I met in Montreal told me about a guy he knows who does this all the time, and he called it Bucket Processing. He dumps the film into a big bucket in a darkroom. He then agitates it and "thumps" it to rise the bubbles. I sounded interested.



I'm curious about this. Won't the remjet backing come off and spoil the chemicals and stock????
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#5 Nick Mulder

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 01:17 AM

I'm curious about this. Won't the remjet backing come off and spoil the chemicals and stock????

An initial wash yields no 'goo' but the chems do gunk up over time, especially the bleach. Its just a part of the cost, you can keep adding replenisher amounts for the chems or just start a new mix (best to do it all of them at once) - still way cheaper than sending it to a lab...

Richardson, your quoting seems to have gone awry and your link doesn't work, I'm keen to have a look though ...

Nick
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#6 Richardson Leao

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 07:55 AM

An initial wash yields no 'goo' but the chems do gunk up over time, especially the bleach. Its just a part of the cost, you can keep adding replenisher amounts for the chems or just start a new mix (best to do it all of them at once) - still way cheaper than sending it to a lab...

Richardson, your quoting seems to have gone awry and your link doesn't work, I'm keen to have a look though ...

Nick


sorry nick i keep forgetting to make external links... its:

http://jcsmr.anu.edu...o/dogheart.html

btw, i am at the moment doing a little video about film craft that explain, among other things, lomo tank loading, the reversal and neg (including color and remjet removal) processing (step by step), film splicing and kinor and k3 film loading, a home made rewind tank with an ice cream tub etc. once i finish i'll let any interested person in knowing how to get it.

about the remjet. if you properly remove it with a borax pre bath, you don't make your dev. dirty. but even if the developer turns blak, it's only cosmetic as the carbon does not react with the developer. replenishing in this case does not help.
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#7 Dominic Case

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 08:08 PM

about the remjet. if you properly remove it with a borax pre bath, you don't make your dev. dirty. but even if the developer turns blak, it's only cosmetic as the carbon does not react with the developer. replenishing in this case does not help.

Carbondoes not react with the developer - but it does react with the emulsion itself, forming a tight chemical bond so that the black lumps of remjet are impossible to remove. This isn't just "stuck on" or even "stuck in" the emulsion, it is "become part of" the emulsion.

That's why professional continuous-run process machines are designed so that the sprays in the backing removal bath never hit the emulsion surface of the film, only the back surface.

However, remjet is only an issue in colour materials. The original question was about black and white, which has no remjet.
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#8 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 03:03 PM

I'm curious how you dry 50 or 100 ft. lengths of film without it sticking.
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#9 Robert Hughes

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 03:36 PM

Of course b&w negative film doesn't have a remjet backing, so if you're willing to work in a purely b&w world, you can just throw your film into the developer and slosh away.

I do a lot of b&w negative bucket processing because it's very cheap and as simple a process as you're likely to find in the film world. As long as you have plenty of liquid for your buckets and don't scratch the film against itself you can make quite good results, and if you want to intentionally stress and abuse the film it's the natural way to do it. Don't try to squeeze too much film into too small a bucket, because it won't come out well. Wear rubber gloves and don't inhale the chemicals, otherwise you'll be developing yourself.

The emulsion is very fragile when wet and likely to scratch if you're frisky with it. Consider that as part of your process - you can make the film look clean or dirty depending on how rough you are with the stirring.

After you've washed the film you're likely to have 50-100' of twisted line. Try to unravel it in the final bath. I dry MP film over the shower rod, squeegie-ing off excess water with my fingers. A little Foto-Flow may be necessary in your process to avoid too much spotting during drying.
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#10 Kirk Anderson

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 04:13 PM

a couple of kids in my 16mm film class bucket processed their final film. Black and white reversal, after they finshed and let it dry they told the the teacher they thought their film was destoryed and the couldn't see any images when they put it on the moviola and wanted to apologize to plead their grade. They said the film turned into tape and stuck to everything and just turned into spaghetti. The teacher had us project the film on an Eiki anyways and what the class saw was pretty freakin cool. The images were pretty clear while every once in a while the emulsion peeled off completely making a flash of white or a build up of gunk making pure black. also sometimes the perfs looked like they went across the frame diagonally from the stickyness. Made for an awesome experimental film. story about a saxophone player. but I would only bucket process for experimental films, you won't get clear images unless you are meticulous and super lucky.
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#11 Robert Hughes

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 05:06 PM

a couple of kids in my 16mm film class bucket processed their final film....Made for an awesome experimental film. but I would only bucket process for experimental films, you won't get clear images unless you are meticulous and super lucky.

That's like saying:

A couple of 12 year olds in my neighborhood stole a Mercedes and drove it on the Loop at 120 mph, until they crashed it into a tree. I guess those Mercedes cars really aren't any good, after all...
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#12 Nick Mulder

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 05:44 PM

I'm curious how you dry 50 or 100 ft. lengths of film without it sticking.


I use a clothes rack, the longer the film length is the more of a hassle it can be but its doable - mind you I'm spinning my film off a Lomo spiral so that makes it a bit easier to control - but the bucket situation is in many ways already out of control so I'd just go for gold in that situation (lightly handle it into submission)
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#13 Richardson Leao

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 09:47 PM

I use a clothes rack, the longer the film length is the more of a hassle it can be but its doable - mind you I'm spinning my film off a Lomo spiral so that makes it a bit easier to control - but the bucket situation is in many ways already out of control so I'd just go for gold in that situation (lightly handle it into submission)



found this the other day in case you're interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem
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#14 Nick Mulder

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 10:23 PM

found this the other day in case you're interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

I've seen it (I have 'lomo tank' as a saved search at eBay) - still looking for the elusive 1x100' tank ...

This one is odd tho - what is pictured is actually a 2x50' tank that can do 8mm, 16mm and 35mm developing (50' of it) - a much better tank than the 1x33' that the text advertises it as - maybe it could be a good deal from an unsuspecting seller, postage is pricey but then again I waited almost 5 weeks for mine on the cheaper rate...

There is however (or there was very recently) a 1x33' tank that was being sold as a 2x50' on eBay also - I emailed the seller and told them to be careful they dont misrepresent the item, no reply ...

I'm a little dubious of some of these because of this but I had earlier taken a punt with the seller 'siberian-shop' late last year - he came through a winner :)
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#15 Richardson Leao

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 07:31 AM

I've seen it (I have 'lomo tank' as a saved search at eBay) - still looking for the elusive 1x100' tank ...

This one is odd tho - what is pictured is actually a 2x50' tank that can do 8mm, 16mm and 35mm developing (50' of it) - a much better tank than the 1x33' that the text advertises it as - maybe it could be a good deal from an unsuspecting seller, postage is pricey but then again I waited almost 5 weeks for mine on the cheaper rate...

There is however (or there was very recently) a 1x33' tank that was being sold as a 2x50' on eBay also - I emailed the seller and told them to be careful they dont misrepresent the item, no reply ...

I'm a little dubious of some of these because of this but I had earlier taken a punt with the seller 'siberian-shop' late last year - he came through a winner :)



I don't know the seller but that was the only one i could find. Is it possible to find a 100ft tank? That would be cool! Olexandr, I think, has some tanks for sele but i think are the 10m ones. He is very very reliable.
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#16 Nick Mulder

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:04 PM

there are three lomo tanks on eBay at the mo' (search for 'lomo tank')

A 2x50' from siberian-shop who is trusty (I bought mine from him and it arrived in great condition)

And another 2x50' but it is advertised as a 1x33' - the text also says "ALL PICTURES ARE ACTUAL, YOU RECEIVE WHAT YOU SEE" - so I dont know what to make of it... The seller ilya-2003 doesn't know what they are talking about and dont appear to read their correspondence (I emailed them telling them of the error, but here it is again...)

And a 1x33' from ussr_cameras a bit expensive tho ...

these tanks actually produce good developments if you are careful - way better than a bucket... and you've always got a bucket if you want scratches n wotnot ...
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#17 Dominic Case

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:38 PM

I'm curious how you dry 50 or 100 ft. lengths of film without it sticking.

Here's one way
trente_park.jpg

here's another
film_drying_room.jpg
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#18 K Borowski

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:49 PM

Here's one way

here's another


Great pictures Dominic! Made me laugh. Be careful though, or RED will purchase the rights to those pictures and try and make all of us film-users out to be that primitive ;-)

Just a side-question, how do you post pictures on this forum? I'm embarassed to say I still haven't figured it out.
(I have a *slightly* more serious picture of a film-drying apparatus that I'd like to post.)
~Karl

Edited by Karl Borowski, 17 January 2007 - 06:50 PM.

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#19 Nick Mulder

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 06:53 PM

Great pictures Dominic! Made me laugh.

:lol: yep.. same here - where is the first one from ? some sort of doco still ? movie ? joke ?
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#20 Nick Mulder

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Posted 30 January 2007 - 03:56 AM

heres a 2x50' unit from Siberian-Shop (item # 200073888531)

I think he has two available.

Hes put the price up since I bought mine though...

Edited by Nick Mulder, 30 January 2007 - 03:58 AM.

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