Jump to content


Photo

Is Elmo 1012S-XL good beginner camera?


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Rodney Dotson

Rodney Dotson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student
  • Olympia, WA

Posted 10 January 2007 - 06:49 PM

I have an opportunity to pick up an Elmo 1012S-XL for under $200 in a very complete package (power pack, mic, case, etc). The camera is in fine working order.

Is this camera good for an 8mm beginner? Should I be looking for anything in particular (good/bad) with this camera?

Thank you!

Rod
  • 0

#2 Matthew Buick

Matthew Buick
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2345 posts
  • Student
  • Newcastle upon Tyne, UK.

Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:00 PM

Once you master it you're golden, it will be difficult to master, but not impossible and probably worth it.
  • 0

#3 Rodney Dotson

Rodney Dotson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student
  • Olympia, WA

Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:12 PM

Once you master it you're golden, it will be difficult to master, but not impossible and probably worth it.


Thank you! I love a challenge but wouldn't want to try walking down the up escalator :)

One last thing; Is the 1012S-XL compatible with the Kodak 64T? From what I've seen, this is the only Super8 available from them.

Please correct me if I am wrong!

Thank you,

Rod
  • 0

#4 Matthew Buick

Matthew Buick
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2345 posts
  • Student
  • Newcastle upon Tyne, UK.

Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:15 PM

I think so, not totally sure.

Edited by Matthew Buick, 10 January 2007 - 07:16 PM.

  • 0

#5 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 10 January 2007 - 07:24 PM

I have an opportunity to pick up an Elmo 1012S-XL for under $200 in a very complete package (power pack, mic, case, etc). The camera is in fine working order.

Is this camera good for an 8mm beginner? Should I be looking for anything in particular (good/bad) with this camera?

Thank you!

Rod


It's probably one of the best non-beginners camera on the market that is relatively easy to use yet has many of the features found on the best super-8 cameras out there. Because it was also a sound camera, it has slightly less camera features on it that are non-sound related. For instance, the slow motion speed is only 36 frames per second, whereas high end silent cameras usually offer 45 or 54 FPS.

I don't recall if this camera has time-lapse, but it does have a very reliable single frame mode. This camera actually recorded sound in the single frame mode if one was using sound film, a very unique function to say the least.

The Elmo 1012XLS camera (10 is the zoom ratio of 10-1, 12 means f 1.2) has a very nice macro focus system. One can macro focus while in the telephoto position, and the zoom lens on this camera is a very healthy ratio of 10-1. If you get this camera do not put it on a cheapie tripod as the lens is big and heavy enough to actually cause a lightweight tripod to tip over if one were to accidentally unlock the tilt pan option and walk away from the camera.
  • 0

#6 Rodney Dotson

Rodney Dotson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student
  • Olympia, WA

Posted 10 January 2007 - 08:02 PM

It's probably one of the best non-beginners camera on the market that is relatively easy to use yet has many of the features found on the best super-8 cameras out there. Because it was also a sound camera, it has slightly less camera features on it that are non-sound related. For instance, the slow motion speed is only 36 frames per second, whereas high end silent cameras usually offer 45 or 54 FPS.

I don't recall if this camera has time-lapse, but it does have a very reliable single frame mode. This camera actually recorded sound in the single frame mode if one was using sound film, a very unique function to say the least.

The Elmo 1012XLS camera (10 is the zoom ratio of 10-1, 12 means f 1.2) has a very nice macro focus system. One can macro focus while in the telephoto position, and the zoom lens on this camera is a very healthy ratio of 10-1. If you get this camera do not put it on a cheapie tripod as the lens is big and heavy enough to actually cause a lightweight tripod to tip over if one were to accidentally unlock the tilt pan option and walk away from the camera.


Thank you very much for the description. I'll get to monkey with it tomorrow afternoon and see if it's as he described. It belonged to a friends father who passed away.

I have a cart of 64T and really hope this works out -- $185 seems like a good price.

If not I'll probably see if I can snatch an 814 cannon somewhere.

Thanks again!

Rod
  • 0

#7 Bernhard Zitz

Bernhard Zitz
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 342 posts
  • Other
  • Z├╝rich, Switzerland

Posted 11 January 2007 - 01:00 PM

http://super8wiki.co.../Elmo_1012_S-XL

It says:

"According to test and info in the instruction manual it can only meter 40 and 160 ASA in artificial light with the corresponding 25 and 100 ASA in daylight.

The original, unmodified camera can not run the Ektachrome 64T automatically. Modification see: [url="http://film.project-consultant.net/""]http://film.project-consultant.net/"[/url]


but it has -/+ correction for auto, so you could compensate this way for 64asa I guess...

Anyway, I'd shoot with an external lightmeter...

I never owned an Elmo, can't say anything about it, but the lens seems to be a killer 7.5-75mm at f1.2... :o

super8wiki says: "Very good lowlight camera with a crisp lens!"


cheers, Bernhard
  • 0

#8 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 11 January 2007 - 02:11 PM

The 64T can still be used even if the camera sees it as ASA 25 or 40. Simply check the exposure in Auto mode then add (that means raise the f-stop to a higher f-stop number) approximately 1/2 to 2/3's of a stop from the automatic reading, this is called adding an "offset" to the automatic reading the camera is giving you. When you get your first cartridge of film back, check the results. If you think the result could have been better, slightly modify your manual f-stop offset adjustment to get a better result.

The Elmo 1012S-XL (oops, I think I called it an XLS previously) camera has an excellent manual exposure dial, it actually can be set even if the camera has no batteries in it!
  • 0

#9 David Leugers

David Leugers
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts
  • Other

Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:21 PM

The Elmo 1012SXL is a great camera, capable of some very nice images. It has a very good lense
on it. However, be aware that this camera is known to be fragile. I owned one and loved it until it
malfunctioned. After wasting several hundred dollars on two attempts to get it repaired (from a
very reputable Elmo repairman,,,) I had to scrap it. I have heard others experiencing the same
thing. If the camera is in good working order as you say and you can get it cheap enough to where
you are willing to take a chance on it = go for it. I liked using mine very much, but good luck.
  • 0

#10 Rodney Dotson

Rodney Dotson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student
  • Olympia, WA

Posted 11 January 2007 - 10:27 PM

The 64T can still be used even if the camera sees it as ASA 25 or 40. Simply check the exposure in Auto mode then add (that means raise the f-stop to a higher f-stop number) approximately 1/2 to 2/3's of a stop from the automatic reading, this is called adding an "offset" to the automatic reading the camera is giving you. When you get your first cartridge of film back, check the results. If you think the result could have been better, slightly modify your manual f-stop offset adjustment to get a better result.

The Elmo 1012S-XL (oops, I think I called it an XLS previously) camera has an excellent manual exposure dial, it actually can be set even if the camera has no batteries in it!


Well it sounds like I may be getting a pretty good deal. I have searched every pawn and second hand store from Seattle to Olympia (over 60 miles and a dozen towns) and not a single usable camera to be found. Was able to pick up a nice Revere 40 (for collecting) and a working Yashika Super 825 sans lense at the Goodwill along the way. I figure $2.99 each was worth working models :) Good cameras sure are pricey on the auction sites. Sellers market I guess?

I'll be practicing with an independent light meter and shooting indoor and outdoor.

I'll be doing some 16mm camera work in about a year. I want to start with the Super8 and use that to learn my P's and Q's (or is it 5C's now) then move up to the Bigger Guns. I will be lurking and absorbing :)

Thanks!

Rod
  • 0

#11 David Leugers

David Leugers
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 68 posts
  • Other

Posted 12 January 2007 - 08:30 PM

I want to start with the Super8 and use that to learn my P's and Q's (or is it 5C's now) then move up to the Bigger Guns


If that is your plan, and it is a good one, then I would suggest you getting either a Bolex H-8 regular 8mm camera or a Canon DS8mm or Bolex modified to shoot DS8mm. This will provide more of a learning experience getting you ready to shoot 16mm. You will learn to thread roll film (no cartridge to pop in like S-8mm) and to set exposure using a light meter. You will also be accustomed to using a camera the size of 16mm since those cameras I mentioned are actually 16mm cameras that use double run 8 or S8 film. Just a thought!
  • 0

#12 Rodney Dotson

Rodney Dotson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student
  • Olympia, WA

Posted 13 January 2007 - 12:28 AM

If that is your plan, and it is a good one, then I would suggest you getting either a Bolex H-8 regular 8mm camera or a Canon DS8mm or Bolex modified to shoot DS8mm. This will provide more of a learning experience getting you ready to shoot 16mm. You will learn to thread roll film (no cartridge to pop in like S-8mm) and to set exposure using a light meter. You will also be accustomed to using a camera the size of 16mm since those cameras I mentioned are actually 16mm cameras that use double run 8 or S8 film. Just a thought!


I had actually thought of going this route, but the cameras that I have access to are a bit out of my current price range (unless you know where I can pick one up SUPER cheap). I will use the Elmo to learn the basics of lense operation and exposure. Later I will probably trade/sell this equipment toward a more complex unit. I figure baby steps is the way to go and I'm in no hurry. I'll be using many of the external tools to shoot instead of relying on the camera's "Brains".

You may see in 6mo. or so a sale on an Elmo 1012S-XL package :)

Figure I'll give it that long before I'm thirsting for more.

Thanks!

Rod
  • 0

#13 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 13 January 2007 - 02:14 AM

I wouldn't format jump if I were you.

I'd keep the Super-8 camera even if I then was going to shoot 16mm.
  • 0

#14 Rick Palidwor

Rick Palidwor
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 407 posts
  • Director

Posted 13 January 2007 - 05:31 AM

I would stick with the internal meter if I were you and then compensate the exposure a little as Alessandro instructs. The internal meter will always know the speed of the lens, the shutter angle, etc - information required to use an external meter accurately. (I am always surprised by the number of people who recommend an external meter in super 8. I have used the internal meter exclusively on dozens of cameras on hundreds of rolls with no problem). Besides, information like shutter angle is often not available, even if you have the manual!

Also, a quicker (and less expensive) way to determine your compensation is to simply load a cartridge of 64T and note whether or not it depresses the notch detection pin in the film chamber. (Top right-hand corner, above the gate area, is a tiny single pin.) If it is depressed by the cartridge, the meter will read it as 40. If it is not depressed, it will read it as 160. Either way, compensate exposure accordingly.

Rick
  • 0

#15 Rodney Dotson

Rodney Dotson
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • Student
  • Olympia, WA

Posted 13 January 2007 - 10:50 AM

I wouldn't format jump if I were you.

I'd keep the Super-8 camera even if I then was going to shoot 16mm.


This would be "Ideal"...

But I may need the funding in the long run. I haven't seen many "good" 16mm rigs that meet my current bugetary requirements. The rig I will require when I finally shoot the end product is usually going for $3500-$5000 US. Although, I am setting aside $$ monthly to get to the "end product".

You are right though, "There's always room for Super8!"

I would stick with the internal meter if I were you and then compensate the exposure a little as Alessandro instructs. The internal meter will always know the speed of the lens, the shutter angle, etc - information required to use an external meter accurately. (I am always surprised by the number of people who recommend an external meter in super 8. I have used the internal meter exclusively on dozens of cameras on hundreds of rolls with no problem). Besides, information like shutter angle is often not available, even if you have the manual!

Also, a quicker (and less expensive) way to determine your compensation is to simply load a cartridge of 64T and note whether or not it depresses the notch detection pin in the film chamber. (Top right-hand corner, above the gate area, is a tiny single pin.) If it is depressed by the cartridge, the meter will read it as 40. If it is not depressed, it will read it as 160. Either way, compensate exposure accordingly.

Rick


I will take this advise and use it! Thank you. The only reason I was going to use the external tools was for "educational" purposes. I'm sure I can trust the internal meter, I just dont want to become dependent on it.
  • 0


Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

Abel Cine

Aerial Filmworks

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Technodolly

CineTape

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

The Slider

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Opal

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Ritter Battery

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Opal

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Tai Audio

CineTape

Glidecam

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Technodolly

Wooden Camera