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How warm is it? How cold is it?


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#1 Zulkifli Yusof

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Posted 12 January 2007 - 04:12 PM

I've posted an earlier thread about identifying practicals in shooting locations (if anyone remembers lol).

Anyway, here's a new topic from me about colour temperature again. This time around, I'm interested to know how does the following colour temperatures renders its colours in different situations:

On Tungsten 3200K film:
- how warm does 2000K look?
- how does 4100K-4900K look?
- how cold does 5000K-6000K look?
- how cold do 7000K and above looks?

On Daylight 5600K film:
- how warm does 3200K look?
- how does 4100-4900K look?
- how cold does 6000K-7000K look?
- how cold does 8000K and above looks?

Basically, I'm interested to know how the colours would like uncorrected. If there are visual examples and comparisons, please refer me to them.

thanks!
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#2 Daniel Carruthers

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 01:17 PM

I've posted an earlier thread about identifying practicals in shooting locations (if anyone remembers lol).

Anyway, here's a new topic from me about colour temperature again. This time around, I'm interested to know how does the following colour temperatures renders its colours in different situations:

On Tungsten 3200K film:
- how warm does 2000K look?
- how does 4100K-4900K look?
- how cold does 5000K-6000K look?
- how cold do 7000K and above looks?

On Daylight 5600K film:
- how warm does 3200K look?
- how does 4100-4900K look?
- how cold does 6000K-7000K look?
- how cold does 8000K and above looks?

Basically, I'm interested to know how the colours would like uncorrected. If there are visual examples and comparisons, please refer me to them.

thanks!

Well I would say somthing like 2000k would be, maybe a sunrise or sunset (but that could vary quite a bit)
4100K-4900- early morning or late afternoon daylight maybe.( if your not in the shade)
5000k-6000k-average daylight
8000k-afternoon sunlight in the shade

Just go out with a video camera and do tests on different times through out the day, use the preset at 3200k and you will see how blue the light will looks.
If you have acces to lights and gels do some tests.
I shot a movie around a campfire, and I found a 1/2 CTO bounced into a gold reflector gave me the fire light I was looking for, it perfectly matched the real fire light. of course the color temperatur of the fire could depend on how big the fire is, you may want to use a half straw instead. which is the same temperature as cto its just more yellow.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 01:22 PM

There's no numerical scale for how strongly we perceive a color bias -- it's like asking if I double the amount of salt in a recipe, how salty is that?

This is just something you'd have to test and judge for yourself, or look at someone else's tests. But opinions on how "blue" uncorrected 5500K looks on 3200K stock will vary by individual.

It also matters how much exposure you give that color. An overexposed 5500K light on 3200K film stock will look less blue than an underexposed 5500K light, because the color will be washed out as it gets brighter-looking.

I think a candle flame is about 1500K, although that seems pretty orange to me. You can use the MIRED system to determine what gels match that.

To determine the MIRED value, divide 1,000,000 by the color temp, so 3200K = 313. A 2800K household bulb therefore = 357. The difference is 44. So a 1/4 CTO gel (according to the manufacturer's swatch book) is the closest match (+42 MIRED).

But 1500K is something like a MIRED value of 666, so the shift needed to get 3200K tungsten lamp to be that color would be really high (666 - 313 = 353), which is something like two layers of Full Orange! Most of us would use one layer of Full CTO for a firelight/candle color.
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#4 Zulkifli Yusof

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:11 AM

Yea, I guess I'll do my own series of tests soon to find out the results.

David, thanks for pointing out about exposure and colour. I was aware of that and I've noticed it alot in my own projects when setting exposure for incandescent lamps, something I need to work on lol.

I did some testing on video cameras/digital cameras prior to posting this thread but I'm always not satisfied with the results that I get. It could be that it's all digital and I'm not using a very high-end one at that.

Would it be appropiate if I set up a test with still photography film instead? It's sure a much cheaper way than 16mm and most probably more accurate than digital acquisition. Advice?
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#5 Greg Gross

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 10:15 AM

If you have a digital camera available you can experiment with white light
and observe your outcomes with incandescent lighting. I do not know if you
are shooting film or video. You might be able to develop some relationship
that will be helpful to you. Of course you can see immediately the results
that are achieved. I did a corporate yearly report for a local Hampton Inn
not too long ago and had all the incandescent lights in the room turned on for
practicals. Of course I was able to run tests on location and observe the out-
comes immediately. With professional digital cameras one can actually use the
white light setting creatively. I'm from the school where I believe that a good
digital camera can be a very useful tool for the cinematographer. As I'm sure
you know color temperature is a very important aspect of digital photography.
You may be able to establish some useful relationships. I have been studying
and experimenting for quite some time. I enjoyed your post. I use a Canon
EOS-1DS Mark II.

Greg Gross
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#6 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 09:55 AM

If you have a digital camera available you can experiment with white light
and observe your outcomes with incandescent lighting. I do not know if you
are shooting film or video. You might be able to develop some relationship
that will be helpful to you. Of course you can see immediately the results
that are achieved. I did a corporate yearly report for a local Hampton Inn
not too long ago and had all the incandescent lights in the room turned on for
practicals. Of course I was able to run tests on location and observe the out-
comes immediately. With professional digital cameras one can actually use the
white light setting creatively. I'm from the school where I believe that a good
digital camera can be a very useful tool for the cinematographer. As I'm sure
you know color temperature is a very important aspect of digital photography.
You may be able to establish some useful relationships. I have been studying
and experimenting for quite some time. I enjoyed your post. I use a Canon
EOS-1DS Mark II.

Greg Gross


" Of course I was able to run tests on location and observe the out-
comes immediately. With professional digital cameras one can actually use the
white light setting creatively."


What is the white letting setting and how can you use it? I don't have a digital camera
so I would probably have to attempt to determine the color temperatures of the lights
and any other sources in the room but a corporate meeting, unlike a film, sounds like the
type of production for which you can't correct or swap out lights but have to white balance
(Were you shooting video?) to what's there or to your production lights on say the podium
speakers.

What are the relationships that you can utilize with a digital camera? Thanks.
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