Jump to content


Photo

Bleach Skip


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Matt Bizer

Matt Bizer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Albuquerque, New Mexico

Posted 14 January 2007 - 04:48 PM

I am shooting for a director that has chosen to process using bleach skip methods.

I havent had an experience with it yet.

Is there any special lighting/ exposure notes I should take?

from what I understand it holds in silver and makes the image washed and contrasty? Anyone have a more technical perspective?

Also, can anyone point me in the direction of some films that may have used this process?

thanks
  • 0

#2 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 14 January 2007 - 06:26 PM

I was just reading up on it last night - there is heaps of info here and at other sites (frequented by the usual suspects) ... search is your friend - try 'bleach bypass' as well as 'skip bleach'

Buuuut...
From what I gather under-expose one stop and you'll also need to decide at which point the bypass will be made - on the original neg for instance (possibly risky) or all the prints ($$$) or somewhere inbetween ...
  • 0

#3 Matt Bizer

Matt Bizer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Albuquerque, New Mexico

Posted 14 January 2007 - 06:31 PM

I was just reading up on it last night - there is heaps of info here and at other sites (frequented by the usual suspects) ... search is your friend - try 'bleach bypass' as well as 'skip bleach'

Buuuut...
From what I gather under-expose one stop and you'll also need to decide at which point the bypass will be made - on the original neg for instance (possibly risky) or all the prints ($$$) or somewhere inbetween ...


Thanks for the info
  • 0

#4 Dominic Case

Dominic Case
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1357 posts
  • Other
  • Sydney Australia

Posted 14 January 2007 - 06:49 PM

Is there any special lighting/ exposure notes I should take?

It depends entirely on what sort of look you and your director are trying to get.

(Incidentally, shouldn't the director be saying just what sort of look he or she wants, and shouldn't YOU be the one to suggest how you get it?)

Bleach bypass gives you increased contrast - particularly at the highlight end if you do it in the negative, particularly in the shadow end if you do it in the prints.

It also gives you reduced colour saturation. And it accentuates the graininess: in negative sometimes you will see some colours start to "crawl" more than other colours (test, test, test!) , while in print it tends to give a "gritty" rather than "grainy" feel.

The effect is considerably more subtle when applied to the print, but it is quite variable depending on which negative stock you shot on. In general, faster stocks seem to be more affected, but it dcepends on so many other things it's hard to be definitive without testing your particular set-up.

If you are bleach bypassing the negative , you will need to underexpose by a stop or more if you want to retain highlight detail and block up the shadows. If you want seriously burnt out highlights and just normal black shadows, expose normally.

If you plan to bleach bypass in the print stage, expose normally.

Since the gamma of the negative is increased substantially in this process, your exposure latitude is reduced: exposure is critical. You will need to test.

Bleach bypass processing will cost the production a surcharge on processing: sometimes per foot, sometimes per run. THat will make the test particularly expensive, but still vital if you want to be confident of your results.

If you are finishing on tape rather than printing, forget the whole thing and do it at telecine where you can see what you are doing.
  • 0

#5 Matt Bizer

Matt Bizer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Albuquerque, New Mexico

Posted 15 January 2007 - 01:45 AM

It depends entirely on what sort of look you and your director are trying to get.

(Incidentally, shouldn't the director be saying just what sort of look he or she wants, and shouldn't YOU be the one to suggest how you get it?)

Bleach bypass gives you increased contrast - particularly at the highlight end if you do it in the negative, particularly in the shadow end if you do it in the prints.

It also gives you reduced colour saturation. And it accentuates the graininess: in negative sometimes you will see some colours start to "crawl" more than other colours (test, test, test!) , while in print it tends to give a "gritty" rather than "grainy" feel.

The effect is considerably more subtle when applied to the print, but it is quite variable depending on which negative stock you shot on. In general, faster stocks seem to be more affected, but it dcepends on so many other things it's hard to be definitive without testing your particular set-up.

If you are bleach bypassing the negative , you will need to underexpose by a stop or more if you want to retain highlight detail and block up the shadows. If you want seriously burnt out highlights and just normal black shadows, expose normally.

If you plan to bleach bypass in the print stage, expose normally.

Since the gamma of the negative is increased substantially in this process, your exposure latitude is reduced: exposure is critical. You will need to test.

Bleach bypass processing will cost the production a surcharge on processing: sometimes per foot, sometimes per run. THat will make the test particularly expensive, but still vital if you want to be confident of your results.

If you are finishing on tape rather than printing, forget the whole thing and do it at telecine where you can see what you are doing.



Thanks for the great feedback. I agree with the "shouldn't YOU be the one to suggest how you get it?"this is why I need to know more about the details of bleach bypass. I cannot claim I know all and I want to help her get the look she desires. Once again thanks.
  • 0

#6 Aditi Sharma

Aditi Sharma

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • New Delhi, Mumbai

Posted 15 January 2007 - 06:10 AM

Also, can anyone point me in the direction of some films that may have used this process?



Kon Ichikwa's Her Brother and Saving Private Ryan. Hope this helps.
Aditi!
  • 0

#7 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 15 January 2007 - 11:47 AM

"Saving Private Ryan" used a 100 IR level of ENR/ACE for the prints, which is not quite a full skip-bleach effect in terms of the level of silver left in.

"Minority Report" did a full skip-bleach on the negative though.

Some scenes in "Munich" also used a skip-bleach on the negative, sometimes combined with a one-stop pull-process though to reduce the build-up in density and contrast caused by the skip-bleach.
  • 0

#8 klemens hufnagl

klemens hufnagl

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 15 January 2007 - 12:07 PM

If you are finishing on tape rather than printing, forget the whole thing and do it at telecine where you can see what you are doing.


does anyone have expirience in faking a bleach bypass look digitally... as i dont have much expirience in digital color correction... i´m curious to know if optical effects like bleach bypass, pushing... can all be obtained digitally if you finish on tape.
in that case, is it better to determine the look rigth away in the telecine process, because your source material is the negative, or i a tape to tape color correction after the editing process fine as well?
  • 0

#9 Matt Bizer

Matt Bizer
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Albuquerque, New Mexico

Posted 15 January 2007 - 12:54 PM

Thanks to all for the useful info. Looks like I need to go back and watch some of these movies again.
  • 0

#10 Keith Mottram

Keith Mottram
  • Sustaining Members
  • 824 posts
  • Other

Posted 15 January 2007 - 12:55 PM

i've seen excellent results with a digital skip. right coulourist and right system and its a solid option.

keith
  • 0


Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

The Slider

Tai Audio

Abel Cine

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

rebotnix Technologies

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Opal

Wooden Camera

Technodolly

CineLab

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

FJS International, LLC

Technodolly

Abel Cine

Opal

CineLab

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc