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#1 Allyn Laing

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 08:43 AM

Hello,

What are the characteristics of this stock compared to say Kodak and Fuji apart from the obvious (green for fuji and warm skin tones for kodak) I mean the real nitty gritty's.
And any examples of European films that were shot on with the agfa brand.

warm ones
Allyn.
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#2 Patrick Cooper

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 10:11 AM

According to one source, the outdoor scenes in 'Out Of Africa' were shot on Agfa film.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 11:28 AM

Agfa was one of the first higher-speed stocks to incorporate a T-grain-type design into one of its layers. This was one reason why the XT-320 was so popular when it came out -- many people thought it was less grainy than 5294, the 400T Kodak stock available. Plus it had a wider exposure latitude (it was a lower-contrast stock.) For example, the last act in the warehouse in "Roger Rabbit" was shot on Agfa XT-320 because Dean Cundey did not want to use '94 (he shot most of the movie on 5247 125T).

It was not as edge-sharp as Kodak and had a brownish cast with colder blacks (and less black blacks). It reproduced greens lighter, which is why some people used it. Later Kodak stocks were definitely finer-grained.

The South Seas nightclub scene in "The Rocketeer" was shot on Agfa XT-320 to handle the blue-green color scheme.

It really helped to overexpose Agfa, which solved the problems with the blacks and grain, and added some snap back into the image. This is one reason why David Watkin used the high-speed Agfa outdoors in the sun for "Out of Africa" but medium-speed Kodak 5247 at night -- he was overexposing the Agfa so it wasn't that much faster than the Kodak anyway, and the Kodak had better blacks.

Other examples of Agfa movies:
Mountains of the Moon
Hamlet (Mel Gibson / Zeferelli version)
Memphis Belle
Gorillas in the Mist
Passion Fish
The Mission (except for day exteriors on 5247)
Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves
Moonstrck
A Fish Called Wanda
Henry V
Life is Sweet
Honey I Shrunk the Kids
a few parts of "Last of the Mohicans"

Besides the softness and low-con look, I tend to think of Agfa has having warm brownish skintones but a powder blue bias to the shadows.
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#4 Allyn Laing

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 06:17 PM

Agfa was one of the first higher-speed stocks to incorporate a T-grain-type design into one of its layers. This was one reason why the XT-320 was so popular when it came out -- many people thought it was less grainy than 5294, the 400T Kodak stock available. Plus it had a wider exposure latitude (it was a lower-contrast stock.) For example, the last act in the warehouse in "Roger Rabbit" was shot on Agfa XT-320 because Dean Cundey did not want to use '94 (he shot most of the movie on 5247 125T).

It was not as edge-sharp as Kodak and had a brownish cast with colder blacks (and less black blacks). It reproduced greens lighter, which is why some people used it. Later Kodak stocks were definitely finer-grained.

The South Seas nightclub scene in "The Rocketeer" was shot on Agfa XT-320 to handle the blue-green color scheme.

It really helped to overexpose Agfa, which solved the problems with the blacks and grain, and added some snap back into the image. This is one reason why David Watkin used the high-speed Agfa outdoors in the sun for "Out of Africa" but medium-speed Kodak 5247 at night -- he was overexposing the Agfa so it wasn't that much faster than the Kodak anyway, and the Kodak had better blacks.


Besides the softness and low-con look, I tend to think of Agfa has having warm brownish skintones but a powder blue bias to the shadows.


Thankyou david, very informative
So when did the XT-320 come out? what about there older stocks such as during the 70's, and 80's? what are there characteristics? Do you know of any european films utilizing the stock?

Allyn

Edited by Allyn Laing, 22 January 2007 - 06:18 PM.

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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 10:55 PM

Thankyou david, very informative
So when did the XT-320 come out? what about there older stocks such as during the 70's, and 80's? what are there characteristics? Do you know of any european films utilizing the stock?

Allyn


XT-320 came out around 1984.

Fuji and Agfa both sold color negative stock (and reversal, b&w neg, etc.) during the 1970's but they were not that popular. I can't think of any Hollywood studio movie shot on Agfa stock during the 1970's, and only a few shot on Fuji ("Farewell My Lovely", parts of "Somewhere in Time", and some Nestor Almendros movies in the late 1970's, early 1980's).

That all changed in 1981 when Fuji came out with the first faster-than-125 ASA color negative motion picture filmstock, a 250 ASA stock. Suddenly you see TV movies and some major features using it ("Sharkey's Machine", "Star Trek II", "Das Boot", "Room with a View", "Legend"). Kodak followed with their own stock about 11 months after Fuji. Then Agfa was the first to use T-grains with XT-320 in 1984.

Don't know which European movies used Agfa off the top of my head (I have an old list but I'd have to dig it up). Chris Doyle used it for some HK movies, like "Chungking Express".
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#6 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 03:50 PM

XT-320 came out around 1984.

Fuji and Agfa both sold color negative stock (and reversal, b&w neg, etc.) during the 1970's but they were not that popular. I can't think of any Hollywood studio movie shot on Agfa stock during the 1970's, and only a few shot on Fuji ("Farewell My Lovely", parts of "Somewhere in Time", and some Nestor Almendros movies in the late 1970's, early 1980's).

That all changed in 1981 when Fuji came out with the first faster-than-125 ASA color negative motion picture filmstock, a 250 ASA stock. Suddenly you see TV movies and some major features using it ("Sharkey's Machine", "Star Trek II", "Das Boot", "Room with a View", "Legend"). Kodak followed with their own stock about 11 months after Fuji. Then Agfa was the first to use T-grains with XT-320 in 1984.


For most of the 70s Agfa color stock was not Eastman processing compatible.
Agfa-Gaevert tried marketing Gevachrome II in the mid70s. But there was only one or two labs in New Jersey and NYC that processed it and 16mm was changing over to color negative.
Though it did have a low con, ala ECO, 80 ASA camera stock.

An ECN-II Agfa-Gaevert didn't come out until '78, about the same time Fuji brought out an ECN-II negative.
I think Agfa was good about donating stock to students and some independants.
'Sex, Lies and Video Tape' was, I believe shot on stock donated by Agfa. A gritty golden look, probably why it was used on 'Farewell my Lovely'.

Cinetech MP stock time line:

http://www.cinetech....cktimeline.html

I used to shoot slides on the 5254 compatible Fujicolor. It was grainier than Kodak. But nice fleshtones and handled fluorescents better than Kodak.
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#7 Max Jacoby

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 04:03 PM

By the way, Agfa still make print stock that is very good. Unfortunately it isn't used much ('Eyes Wide Shut' was the one film I know about), but I once saw a comparison with the Fuji High Con and the Agfa was much better.
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#8 Allyn Laing

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 05:53 PM

By the way, Agfa still make print stock that is very good. Unfortunately it isn't used much ('Eyes Wide Shut' was the one film I know about), but I once saw a comparison with the Fuji High Con and the Agfa was much better.


I was under the impression that agfa went bust? Am I incorrect, they still make print stock, where can this be purchased? and which labs still use it?
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#9 Leo Anthony Vale

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 03:27 PM

I was under the impression that agfa went bust? Am I incorrect, they still make print stock, where can this be purchased? and which labs still use it?


No. Agfa-Gaevert eliminated all acetate base products.
They only manufacture polyestar base photo stocks. Still films. Print stock and optical sound negative.

The now defunct WRS used Agfa for all off their loop printinting & Eastman for their normal printing.
Both use the same processing. Ask your lab if they use it.

Edited by Leo Anthony Vale, 24 January 2007 - 03:28 PM.

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#10 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 08:49 PM

No. Agfa-Gaevert eliminated all acetate base products.
They only manufacture polyestar base photo stocks. Still films. Print stock and optical sound negative.

Actualy the still films were sold to "AgfaPhoto GMBH, which has now gone under. The trademarks for the still stockes were sold to another firm who is selling stock off, but I have been told the factory in Leverkusen has been demolished.
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#11 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 09:20 AM

The current Agfa print stock is the CP30, can be processed in ECP2 chemistry of course.

it is available in polyester only. With regard to contrast and saturation it sits halfway between the Kodak Vision and Premier print stocks. I appears slightly sharper than the Kodak stocks and the blacks are more neutral.

It is very suitable for printing from dupe negs 5242. In this case it looks more like the answer print made on Vision than the Kodak stock itself.

In many cases our customers ask for a blind test between Kodak and Agfa print stocks and in the majority they opt for the Agfa look.
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