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A New Super-8 Camera


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#1 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 03:02 AM

Retrothing.com

I hope this story stays up for a while on Retrothing.
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#2 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 07:05 AM

5200 euros is pretty steep for a super8 camera.
Professional use very often requires fast turn around time on development and there are not many labs set up for this.
The small number of filmstocks available in the format is another downside.
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#3 Nate Downes

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 07:53 AM

Might I point out that any lab able to handle 16mm film can handle DS8 film.

I applaud the A-cam guys for this move. If I had the funds, I'd be buying one myself
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#4 Glenn Brady

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 08:05 AM

A near mint condition Bolex H8 RX4 DS8 camera with three Kern-Paillard Switar primes sold at eBay a few days ago for $395.00. A mint Pathé DS8/BTL camera w/8-64mm f/1.9 Angénieux lens sold for $125.00. Even if an overhaul will be needed before such cameras can be put to use, they'll still cost a small fraction of what the Ikonoscope costs ($6,765.00 at today's exchange rate). There are technicians who'll do conversions of Bolex H8 RX and H16 RX cameras to DS8 for much less than $1.0K. The functionality (if not the ergonomics) of the Bolex and Ikonoscope cameras is comparable, and one could even argue that the Bolex is the more versatile because the range of accessories made for it is so extensive.

While I applaud the folks at Ikonoscope for considering this offering, I have to wonder if they can attract twenty-five buyers when far less expensive alternatives exist.

Edited by Glenn Brady, 01 February 2007 - 08:08 AM.

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#5 Glenn Brady

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 12:06 PM

It's Ikonoskop, I see, and not Ikonoscope. Sorry about that.
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#6 James Grahame

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 12:44 PM

Thanks for mentioning my site, Alex!

The direct link to this story is: http://www.retrothin..._super_8_m.html

I agree with others in this thread that ?4200 is quite a bit of money, but I don't think it's fair to compare a brand new crystal sync camera to a secondhand early 1960s windup Bolex. The Ikonoskop team did a fantastic job of creating an extremely compact camera at an extremely low price, especially considering that they've only produced a couple of hundred cameras.

The A-Cam would make an ideal camera for extreme sports action shots, vehicle exteriors, music videos, cockpit sequences (race cars and aircraft), and so on.

I'd buy the Super 16 model in a minute if the factory offered it with a reflex viewfinder (Du-All has proved that it's possible with their viewfinder add-on).
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#7 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 01:11 PM

5200 euros is pretty steep for a super8 camera.
Professional use very often requires fast turn around time on development and there are not many labs set up for this.
The small number of filmstocks available in the format is another downside.


I think the press release stated there would be a $1,000 discount to those who put a $1,000 dollar discount down. Ironically, I'm now curious about their Super-16 camera, although it would have to have time-exposure to peak my interest.

I read that it will equal 10 minutes of run time, I assume 5 minutes per side? That is pretty impressive.
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#8 James Grahame

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 01:34 PM

I read that it will equal 10 minutes of run time, I assume 5 minutes per side? That is pretty impressive.

Correct. A "standard" 50 ft Super 8 cartridge lasts 2:30 at 24 frames per second. A 100 ft spool of DS8 will run 5 minutes per side.
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#9 Mike Crane

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 01:47 PM

I think they did a great job. I wonder if it is possible to allow the camera to work with standard super 8 films. Then there would be more film variety and larger group of customers willing to pay.

James, thanks for running this. I have always found your site very interesing.
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#10 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 03:30 PM

Reproducing Super 8 Cameras appears to me a rather precarious subject, I would personally like to see 21st century version of tried and tested models that we all love, Bolex would be a good candidate.
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#11 Glenn Brady

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 03:45 PM

I agree with others in this thread that ?4200 is quite a bit of money, but I don't think it's fair to compare a brand new crystal sync camera to a secondhand early 1960s windup Bolex. The Ikonoskop team did a fantastic job of creating an extremely compact camera at an extremely low price, especially considering that they've only produced a couple of hundred cameras.


Given the option of buying a new Ikonoskop DS8 camera or a used Bolex H8 RX4 DS8 camera, hobbyists like me are more likely to opt for the Bolex, and I would be surprised if the DS8 format proves to be of interest to anybody other than hobbyist filmmakers. It's a format whose primary attraction is its economy. Properly maintained, I have to believe the Bolex DS8 will produce results not appreciably different than an Ikonoskop DS8. Crystal motors for the Bolex are readily available and inexpensive.

I agree that Ikonoskop has produced a camera that's very competitive on price with other new cameras. In fact, it's only slightly more expensive than a new Bolex SBM spring-wound camera and a lot less expensive than a new Bolex H16 EL camera. Still, I question whether there are buyers prepared to spend ?4,200 on a Super 8 camera, however stylish and well-appointed. If a DS8 Ikonoskop is ever produced, maybe a comparision test with the Bolex H8 RX4 DS8 and Pathé DS8/BTL cameras will serve to demonstrate its advantages.

Edited by Glenn Brady, 01 February 2007 - 03:47 PM.

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#12 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 04:01 PM

Thanks for mentioning my site, Alex!

The direct link to this story is: http://www.retrothin..._super_8_m.html


You're welcome James. Cool, there is a direct link as well.
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#13 Matthew Buick

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 06:55 PM

I personally think the price is too high, they should probably be aiming at the masses, the majority of people who are going to buy a new Super 8 Camera are probably micro-budget filmakers like myself with no more than, say, £250.00 to spend, I'd say that's where the money is, I'd imagine a pretty decent, but simple camera can be built for that price, they should probably design it so that add-ons such as CPU Control Module, Auto Focus System, and even a Video Tap can be...err...added on, I'd also suggest making a C Mount camera, so that the price can be kept lower by not including a lens (as theycan be found cheaper than dirt these days) this also makes the camera more flexible and desirable as a professionl tool, it also shouldn't offer any Auto Exposure facilities (absolutely NOT NESSERCARY) but cost cutting.

And people say I'm immature. :D

Edited by Matthew Buick, 01 February 2007 - 06:57 PM.

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#14 Troy Warr

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Posted 01 February 2007 - 10:53 PM

I personally think the price is too high, they should probably be aiming at the masses, the majority of people who are going to buy a new Super 8 Camera are probably micro-budget filmakers like myself with no more than, say, £250.00 to spend, I'd say that's where the money is, I'd imagine a pretty decent, but simple camera can be built for that price, they should probably design it so that add-ons such as CPU Control Module, Auto Focus System, and even a Video Tap can be...err...added on, I'd also suggest making a C Mount camera, so that the price can be kept lower by not including a lens (as theycan be found cheaper than dirt these days) this also makes the camera more flexible and desirable as a professionl tool, it also shouldn't offer any Auto Exposure facilities (absolutely NOT NESSERCARY) but cost cutting.

And people say I'm immature. :D


Who's calling Matthew immature? C'mon, guys, that's totally unNESSERCARY. :P
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#15 Mark Dunn

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 04:56 AM

I'm sure you are all aware, and maybe it's just my character set, but euros are not the same as dollars.
?1 is about USD 1.30.
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#16 Fernando Morales

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 06:20 AM

Great news for everybody! Though I have a Bolex H8 Rex DS8 camera and I love it, I would love to use a brand new DS8 camera! Perhaps this might boost somehow the release of more stocks. DS8 gives steadier images than S8. I've tested with both the Bolex and the Canon 1014XL-S. The Leicina Special might be better but I don't have one. What do you guys think?

Best regards,

Morales
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#17 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 07:41 AM

The good folks at Ikonoskop would make a lot of friends and a lot of sales if they could some how put some of their very fine technical and engineering skill into a DS8 perferator and start perfing Fuji neg (they would't be able to get hold of Kodak unperfed 16mm, but the Fuji range in DS8 would be fantastic)
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#18 Dan Salzmann

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 08:09 AM

"Might I point out that any lab able to handle 16mm film can handle DS8 film.
I applaud the A-cam guys for this move. If I had the funds, I'd be buying one myself"


Mr. Downes have you asked many of your local labs if they are set up to cut DS8 into lengths of super8 after development?
I'd like to know about the difference in DS8 and 16mm perfs as well.
I've shot lots of super8 and 16mm but never DS8.
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#19 Nate Downes

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 10:40 AM

"Might I point out that any lab able to handle 16mm film can handle DS8 film.
I applaud the A-cam guys for this move. If I had the funds, I'd be buying one myself"
Mr. Downes have you asked many of your local labs if they are set up to cut DS8 into lengths of super8 after development?
I'd like to know about the difference in DS8 and 16mm perfs as well.
I've shot lots of super8 and 16mm but never DS8.


I have, actually. Out of the 5 local labs, only 1 is set up for slicing. However, all 5 are fully capable of processing the film. Worst case, buy a $15 slicer and do it yourself.
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#20 Matthew Buick

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 02:22 PM

Who's calling Matthew immature? C'mon, guys, that's totally unNESSERCARY. :P


Oh, that was SO NESSERCARY!!! <_< You're SO funny.

Edited by Matthew Buick, 02 February 2007 - 02:27 PM.

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