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Student FilmMaker needs urgent Help


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#1 Amarjeet Singh Sadal

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 04:44 PM

a student film maker here with some questions:
-------------------------------------------------------
which is the best adapter for hvx200 - brevis, m2, teknik, mini35, movietube and others?

and what do these adapter do to the image?

whats the size of footage shot at full res uncompressed on hvx? lets say 1min. footage?

how does it record sound? is it recorded on the proprietory format?

whats a hvx2pc workflow?

any idea where can i rent the hvx along with an adapter in london?

please guys. am in pre-production right now and answeres to these question will be highly appreciated.
if you think some of the questions have already been answered then jus direct me to the old thread.

thanks a lot for your help.
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#2 Kevin Masuda

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 04:52 PM

Take a look: http://www.redrockmicro.com/learn.html
and: http://www.pstechnik...film-mini35.php

Those are probably the best that I know of, the others you mentioned are decent as well. The 35mm lens adapters do not record sound as they are just an adapter. You're HVX200 will be recording the sound, make sure you do have a good shotgun mike and possibly some lava mikes.

Kev
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#3 Amarjeet Singh Sadal

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 05:38 PM

thanks a lot kevin for the quick reply.

those links were informative but those are company websites which always upsell their products. do u have practical experience using any of those adapters.

please people. i need answeres to all the questions.

would be a great help.

thanks
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#4 Amarjeet Singh Sadal

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 05:55 PM

i have access to super16 film camera at my uni, but am scared since the stocks costs ridiculous.
instead i would want to have a hd and forget worrying about retakes. i have a dell m90 with about 360gb of external storage.

answeres to the questions above would be a huge help really.
also if anyone is based in london and would like to associate with my project as a dop i would be more than honoured. you can contact me on amarssadal@gmail.com
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#5 Kevin Masuda

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 06:50 PM

It sounds like you are not the cinematographer on your project. If that's the case my suggestion is to find someone who has experience with either shooting film or using HD. I have seen the footage from an HVX w/PS Technik's Mini 35 and it's amazing. Might want to check out this site: www.dvxuser.com. You can look up answers to your questions there.

Kev
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#6 Morgan Peline

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 07:00 PM

i have access to super16 film camera at my uni, but am scared since the stocks costs ridiculous.
instead i would want to have a hd and forget worrying about retakes. i have a dell m90 with about 360gb of external storage.

answeres to the questions above would be a huge help really.
also if anyone is based in london and would like to associate with my project as a dop i would be more than honoured. you can contact me on amarssadal@gmail.com


Hi,

Personally I like film...but then I'm a luddite.

Please take a look at my website - if you like what you see please send me a copy of your script and tell me when you are thinking of shooting. I just graduated from the National Film School.

Regards
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#7 Troy Warr

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 07:30 PM

Hi Amarjeet,

> which is the best adapter for hvx200 - brevis, m2, teknik, mini35, movietube and others?

If money is not an object, probably the P+S Technik. I'm assuming money is an object, so probably the best bang for the buck can be had with the Brevis35. They also offer a very affordable rails system for support and accessories. There is a lot of information in the forums on the cinevate.com website. I haven't yet used one personally but I've done a lot of research, and the Brevis35 has very little light loss and good image quality.

> and what do these adapter do to the image?

Wikipedia has a good general explanation. Basically, you're using a 35mm SLR lens to create an image on a diffuser (usually ground glass), and then using a camcorder to record that image off of the ground glass. The major advantage is that you can use a wide variety of 35mm SLR lenses, you get easier to manage focusing, and your image has a more "cinematic" shallow depth of field. Keep in mind that these adapters will flip your image vertically, so you'll need to find a way to manage that - best solution is probably to run an external monitor and just mount that upside-down.

> whats the size of footage shot at full res uncompressed on hvx? lets say 1min. footage?

I don't think that you can record uncompressed on the HVX200. The best quality compressed format that it's capable of will, I believe, run about 10 minutes to 4 GB, so roughly 2.5 minutes/GB. Don't quote me on that, but I think that's a general ballpark figure, and the Panasonic website should have more detailed information about that.

Actual uncompressed HD is *majorly* bandwidth-intensive, so for that you'd need to consider a RAID setup, etc. I don't think that you should consider uncompressed unless you have some serious VFX work in mind.

Also, the HVX200 has major differences when shooting 1080/24p vs. 720p. The latter will give you variable frame rates and more footage per GB.

> how does it record sound? is it recorded on the proprietory format?

Not sure - but if you have software capable of editing video footage from the HVX200, it will also allow you to edit the sound from that footage.

> whats a hvx2pc workflow?

Not sure. It sounds like it has something to do with the way that you get your footage from the P2 media to your computer. What context did you hear this in?

I read this blog occasionally and they discuss a lot of workflow issues with the HVX200/P2.

Good luck!
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#8 Daniel Christie

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 07:48 PM

a student film maker here with some questions:
-------------------------------------------------------
which is the best adapter for hvx200 - brevis, m2, teknik, mini35, movietube and others?

and what do these adapter do to the image?

whats the size of footage shot at full res uncompressed on hvx? lets say 1min. footage?

how does it record sound? is it recorded on the proprietory format?

whats a hvx2pc workflow?

any idea where can i rent the hvx along with an adapter in london?

please guys. am in pre-production right now and answeres to these question will be highly appreciated.
if you think some of the questions have already been answered then jus direct me to the old thread.

thanks a lot for your help.


Hi Amarjeet,

Kev is right, it would be best to make these decisions with an experienced DOP attached to the project as they are complex and depend on a number of factors unique to your project, especially with regard to choosing the format and equipment you use but I will answer what I can.

I have only ever shot/focus pulled with the P+S adaptor. You lose about 2 stops going through this adaptor, so consider that when allocating you lighting budget if it is an interior shoot. Using an adaptor with 35mm cine lenses will give you the DOF of 35, but since on a fixed lens camera, such as the HVX, the image plane of the adaptor, a spinning ground glass, is being recorded via the cheap fixed lens. I tend to believe that the quality of a good cine lens is a little wasted.

The HVX does not record uncompressed. It records DVCPRO HD at 100 Mbits. 7 minutes to a 4Gb card at 1080i (or P over I) or 14 minutes at 720P native.

The P2 implimentation of DVCPRO HD records in MXF format, but the files are not serlf contained. Be sure to maintain the file structure exactly as it was on the P2 when you copy it. Do not delete anything. You will have to use a P2/DVCPRO HD compatible editor, FCP or Avid, to import and put these files back together. I believe audio is uncompressed, probably PCM.

Hope that info helps but do try and talk to someone who can advise and discuss the system with you extensively, even if that is the guy at the rental house. They get feedback from clients all the time and have probably got to know the system quite well themselves.

Daniel
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#9 Ken Minehan

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Posted 06 February 2007 - 11:14 PM

hello.
The HVX200 with cine lens adapters produce beautiful images. I only have experience with the PS technik and the M2 adapter, but iwould assume that the other adpters you mentioned would create a similar image because the recording system (HVX) will be the same. All the adapter is doing is allowing you to put on a cine lens and letting the image pass through a ground glass. I so far i have been happy with the images produced by both PS technik and the M2. Just a side note, please be diligent in checking the back focus on the adapter and make sure that it's turned on. Other wise you will get a very dirty image where the ground glass is visible. I think i read you cant shoot above shutter speed of 1/250. Because the ground glass will become visible. As for lens selection, get fast lenses. The HVX200 is rated at 320asa and the adpater will take out about 1 1/2 stops.

When setting up the camera to these adapters make sure you do it the night before. If you have no experience in setting it up, it will take you ages. Especially the M2. You wanna be able to walk on to set ready to whack the lens on.

I recommend you use the P2 card rather than the FS100 (firestore). I have had alot of problems with the firestore. It is very temperamental, somet imes it will record sometimes not. And the 4 pin 1394 cables that plugs in to camera from the firestore is very very flimsy. On one shoot one of the pins got bent, and as a result we wasted hours of time rectifying the problem. P2 card is a much more stable recording format. Haven't had any problems with it yet.

Good luck mate
Ken Minehan

Edited by Ken Minehan, 06 February 2007 - 11:17 PM.

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#10 Daniel Christie

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 04:52 AM

I forgot to mention, your focus puller will really thank you for giving them proper lenses to work with too :D
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#11 Amarjeet Singh Sadal

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 09:35 AM

dear all,
thanks a million, all the replies above have solved almost all of my confusions and doubts about hvx and its adapters. a great forum this is for confused chaps like me. thanks a lot again for taking time and answering my queries.

only one last question remaining now guys.
i have ready access to a dvcpro50 910. its free since it comes from my uni. that along with all the lights, dollies, jib, tracks everything comes free to me. since its a student project as you would know, its on a shoestring budget. would you think its worth for me to invest my money into an hvx200 when i have a dvcpro50 lying around???

i understand that film/story/acting is more important than technology used. but my films more about visuals rather than story. hope you understand.

in future when i start work commercially would it add weight to my cv if i say "i have worked with hd" making my current investment in hvx worthwhile???

the thing is am extremely concious and concerned about the quality of images produced for my film.

check these links to get an idea of my visual aethetics:

http://www.photo.net...eet Singh Sadal
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#12 Daniel Christie

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 09:42 PM

dear all,
thanks a million, all the replies above have solved almost all of my confusions and doubts about hvx and its adapters. a great forum this is for confused chaps like me. thanks a lot again for taking time and answering my queries.

only one last question remaining now guys.
i have ready access to a dvcpro50 910. its free since it comes from my uni. that along with all the lights, dollies, jib, tracks everything comes free to me. since its a student project as you would know, its on a shoestring budget. would you think its worth for me to invest my money into an hvx200 when i have a dvcpro50 lying around???

i understand that film/story/acting is more important than technology used. but my films more about visuals rather than story. hope you understand.

in future when i start work commercially would it add weight to my cv if i say "i have worked with hd" making my current investment in hvx worthwhile???

the thing is am extremely concious and concerned about the quality of images produced for my film.

check these links to get an idea of my visual aethetics:

http://www.photo.net...eet Singh Sadal


Although not HD, the SDX-910 is a much higher end camera, a true professional camera. If you A/B the cameras you may will find that it produces a much better picture, possibly even sharper than down converted HVX video. This has certainly been my experience in comparing the Sony Z1 and DSR-450 (which is only DVCAM). It's a better camera and even if it only has an ENG lens, the lens alone is probably worth almost as much as a HVX! In terms of operation, the 910 will equip you better to operate a Varicam,or other professional camera, since the designs are similar. Since you've been talking about the 35mm adaptors, you might consider shooting on the 910 with the P+S Pro35 adaptor.

There are unique factors that will affect your choice for this production, but unless there is good reason why the production must be aquired in HD I would probably choose the 910 any day.

Daniel
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#13 Ken Minehan

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 10:21 PM

I tend to agree. Since this is a student film, i would save the money and shoot with the free DVC pro 50 camera. The money that you save can go in to more lighting or to the art department. This department often gets neglected on student films. And as a DOP on this film you have a lot to say in art department too.

The DVC pro 50 colour range is 4:2:2. And i 'm pretty sure the HVX200 is also 4:2:2. If you decide to shoot with the DVCPro, then i recommend you use the cine lens adapters. The ENG lens will give you a very video feel. Also the HVX is 1/3 inch chips and DVC Pro is 2/3 inch chips.

Both are good cameras, both are good options, but in this case i would save the money, use the DVC pro 50 and whack on the primes.

Ken Minehan
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#14 Amarjeet Singh Sadal

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:53 AM

thanks daniel, ken and everyone else.

dvcpro50 it is. next proj is sure on hd though.

thanks all.
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