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#1 Matthew Buick

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:08 PM

I've heard of a processing process where the Silver Halide Crystals are left in the film indtead of being bleached out.

What is this process called? And what does it do to the image?


Best Regards,
Matthew A. Buick.
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#2 K Borowski

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:11 PM

It's called bleach bypass Matthew. I've never done it with movie films, but it's essentially the same thing that happens if you stop and fix color photopaper instead of bleaching the silver out. Contrast is heightened, shadow detail is lost, and the retained silver creates a much denser black and a desaturated color look, as the negative's dyes are physically located in close proximity to the grain.

Coupled with blue filtration and push processing to further accentuate grain, is the superb "Minority Report"; if you want to actually observe the effects of this process then rent it out or watch it on HDTV.

Regards,

~Karl
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#3 Matthew Buick

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:31 PM

Excellent, I'll certainly need it, methinks.

Good luck. ;)
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 12:34 AM

Most labs charge a $500 set-up fee for bleach-bypass processing, plus a per-foot charge.
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#5 Bhavin Amin

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 12:51 AM

Spielberg's DP, Janus Kaminski uses it alot especially in Saving Private Ryan and Munich.

I heard it can be done digitally as well, would it be cheaper? And would it look the same?
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#6 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 01:33 AM

Spielberg's DP, Janus Kaminski uses it alot especially in Saving Private Ryan and Munich.

I heard it can be done digitally as well, would it be cheaper? And would it look the same?


Depends on what you mean by cheaper -- if you were doing digital transfer and color-correction anyway, then doing a simulated skip-bleach look is not difficult and doesn't cost you more money. But it's not exactly the same since leaving silver in adds a unique grain texture from the silver grains.

But if you were shooting a feature and doing a photochemical finish, then using a D.I. instead just to get a skip-bleach look would certainly be more expensive than skip-bleaching the film.
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#7 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 01:50 AM

Don't let that negative, skip bleach, sit too long either it will change over time! you can bleach it later on though. 500.00? we are going to have to raise our prices! :D

-Rob-
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#8 Matthew Buick

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 04:45 PM

Most labs charge a $500 set-up fee for bleach-bypass processing, plus a per-foot charge.


Oh, crumbs! <_<
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#9 Jason M Silverman

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:34 AM

Can this process be done on all film, 16mm and 8mm included? I assume few if any labs would do it for 8mm?

Jason
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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 11:40 AM

Can this process be done on all film, 16mm and 8mm included? I assume few if any labs would do it for 8mm?


All color film -- b&w is only made up of silver to begin with. I'm not sure how or where skip-bleach works in the color reversal processing chain though.

I doubt a Super-8 lab would bother to offer such an option.
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#11 Davon Slininger

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 12:47 PM

All color film -- b&w is only made up of silver to begin with. I'm not sure how or where skip-bleach works in the color reversal processing chain though.

I doubt a Super-8 lab would bother to offer such an option.



I was just browsing the Pro8mm website. They are a 8mm and 16mm specialty lab and retailer in Burbank, CA.

They offer skip bleach processing on both 8mm and 16mm stocks. They will also convert any current 35mm stock to Super8.

www.pro8mm.com

Pretty awesome actually. A niche market i guess, in an age of ever increasing digital reproduction.
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#12 K Borowski

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:31 PM

For $500 a setup, I'd probably try doing bleach bypass myself if I only needed to do it in selected scenes. Essentially, it's the same as your standard ECN-II process but without the bleach, and I'd personally want extended fix and wash times to make sure no silver halides are left in and that the residual fixer left in the film emulsion will not be of sufficiently high amounts to cause fading of the silver grains.
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#13 Matthew Buick

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 06:59 PM

How hard would that be to do? I'm thinking I may need that distinct look.
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#14 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 07:18 PM

How hard would that be to do?


Too hard for me... I had a hard enough time in my darkroom class in college winding the film onto the spindle for the processing tank without pinching it, let alone keeping things clean enough. I had endless dirt & dust problems with my b&w still photography. Now compound that with the tiny Super-8 frame and imagine how big a speck of dust can look.

Even I'm not anal-retentive enough to do my own (clean) lab work...

This brings up another issue entirely, which is the obsession beginners have with non-standardized processes and techniques, before they've even mastered the standard filmmaking practices. I get emails and see posts all the time from students who have barely shot 100' for movie film in their lives asking for advice because they want to skip-bleach, cross-process, and flash their film, sometimes not even knowing what those terms even mean yet!

Don't get hung up on specialized techniques; they can be a distraction from learning the meat and potatoes of filmmaking, the general skills that you will always need. Even now that I'm working on films with a budget, I have to ask myself if insisting that some odd (and more expensive) technique be used whether I'm being more artistic... or just jerking off. Sometimes using a simpler technique like a camera filter or a different film stock is enough of a difference.
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#15 Matthew Buick

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 07:23 PM

Right, my mind's made up, I'm not doing it.
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#16 Chris Burke

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Posted 12 February 2007 - 07:24 PM

All color film -- b&w is only made up of silver to begin with. I'm not sure how or where skip-bleach works in the color reversal processing chain though.

I doubt a Super-8 lab would bother to offer such an option.




Cinelab offers skip bleach and cross process for Super 8. Better get your oder in before Rob raises his prices.


Chris
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#17 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 12:31 AM

Cinelab offers skip bleach and cross process for Super 8. Better get your oder in before Rob raises his prices.
Chris



yes we do, I was kidding about raising the prices.... :D

-Rob-
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