Jump to content


Photo

cheap way to test different film stocks


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Pepijn Robben

Pepijn Robben
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Student
  • Brussels Belgium

Posted 08 February 2007 - 02:26 PM

Hi iam a student and about to shoot a short film for school.
For this short film i want to test different kinds of film stocks to see how they react and to do a key light test with them. Most of the time we are shooting with kodak vision 2 500t (16mm) here at school. But i want to work with other stocks to learn about there look. Does anyone know a cheap way to test different kind of filmstocks without having to buy a full roll of film for each stock and having it developed. Maybe with dia or something but i don't know if the stocks are the same for photography and film.

I just want to learn more about the different kind of film available on the market so maybe my schoolprojects can have a better look in the future

thanks in advance

pepijn
  • 0

#2 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:15 PM

Does anyone know a cheap way to test different kind of filmstocks without having to buy a full roll of film for each stock and having it developed. Maybe with dia or something but i don't know if the stocks are the same for photography and film.
pepijn

It is normaly a bit hard to get LESS than 100 ft in 16mm. You might try to talk to a short end dealer to see if they would sell you should short rolls, perhaps left over from re-rolling ends on to camera spools, but I am sure they would not bother. (a 160 ft end would often be re-rolled to a 100 ft spool, and the 50 feet left discarded) Some of the labs will also use 100 ft as a minimum charge per roll whne you go to get te teats processed.

If you want an assortment of stocks in 100ft rolls, the end dealers should be ale to sell you ends of just about anything that is cirrently sold, or has recently been sold.
  • 0

#3 Jon Kukla

Jon Kukla
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Other

Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:27 PM

You might also want to very politely ask your local Kodak or Fuji dealers if you might be allowed a free test roll. It's at their discretion, but very much worth trying.
  • 0

#4 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:35 PM

Hey Pepijn: I'd recommend calling up Dr. Raw Stock or Film Emporium (both of which have websites with emails too) and asking them if they have any super short short ends. They might even give you short enough lengths for free, or you could ask other student filmmakers (shooting 35mm) if you can have any really short leftovers they have instead of them just winding them through for a few dollars.

Find a 35mm SLR, make sure the shutter is working at accurate speeds and find a 50mm prime lens to avoid any discrpencies with F-and T-stop measurements that'd pop up with a zoom. Shoot your tests with the SLR and then you can send it to Dale Labs in Florida (they process ECN-2 stills and then print it to Vision color print film). That'll probably save you a great deal of money over shooting tests with a movie camera, just make sure that you are shooting with a well-maintained SLR to avold shutter speed discrepencies.

It'd cost you maybe $12 for the ~40 test shots that you can fit into a 35mm cannister. If you need any information on how to load film into 35mm still cassettes, I can provide information on that as well, and I could probably give you a free loader for the cost of shipping, assuming that shipping isn't too prohibitively expensive from my location to yours.

~Karl
  • 0

#5 Pepijn Robben

Pepijn Robben
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Student
  • Brussels Belgium

Posted 09 February 2007 - 07:01 AM

Thanks for all your replys
i think it would help me to do some cheap test

Karl i could use some help for loading film in to a still cassette i would be delighted if you could send me some information about it. For the free loader i will look here in the neighbourhood to see if i can find one, thanks for the offer. you helped me allot thanks

i also gonna try shooting some test with a nikon digital camera and test out some looks with kodak look manager. I hope this can help me find a right film stock

thanx
  • 0

#6 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 10 February 2007 - 03:12 PM

Hey, no problem my man. It's a bit tricky when you first start doing it. You buy some PLASTIC 35mm reloadable cassettes (metal is more difficult to close than the plastics are), and then you have to tape the end of the film onto the spool in the middle, making sure it'll load the right way. If you load the film upside-down, it won't load into the camera with the proper orientation, and the emulsion will be on the wrong side, ruining all of your exposures. It's actually not that hard if you practice it a few hours with junk film. You load the little spool in the bulk loader, attach some of the fogged film in the light, close the lid on the bulk loader, open the compartment with the bulk of the 100-foot core, or whatever length of film you have, and wind 36-40 frames onto the cassette, keeping in mind whne you're shooting that there willl be 2-3 useless frames on each end because they were fogged by light during loading. Then open the loader up in the dark and close up the spool inside the 35mm cassette, spin hte top cap on, and you're ready to shoot! If this is still confusing, I'll see if I can't find some diagrams for you on Monday. Two important points: you must load the film onto the spool with the hatch open, otherwise the film will still fit through the crack between the bulk of the film and the spool, but it will be scratched as you force it through with the latch open. You must keep the felt light-trap on the 35mm still cassette clean after repeated usage or it will also produce scratches on your negatives. As for your being in Europe, I am not very familiar as to what services are available there for processing of short lengths of ECN-2 film. If there are no laboratories like Dale in your neck of the woods, I'd suggest you contact a movie lab and ask if they could consider running your film at the beginning or end of the day with their test strips ro something like that. I'm sure you could find someone willing to help you out.

Regards,

~Karl Borowski
  • 0

#7 Stuart Brereton

Stuart Brereton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3054 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 February 2007 - 03:24 PM

If you speak to your local Kodak rep, they will send you 35mm cartridges preloaded with the stock of your choice, free of charge.

The difficulty can be finding a lab that is willing to process such short lengths.
  • 0

#8 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:43 PM

Remember our friends Bruenning and Steven-Beverly? They are both setting up ECN-II processing lines. You could probably convince either of the two to do processing of this sort when they've gotten to the point where their processes are in control. I've heard of using modified C-41 and E-6 chemicals for processing ECN-II, but probably not what you want because I doubt the results fromt this modified process would be identical to official ECN-II chemistry, as ECN-II uses a different color developing agent than C-41.

If you don't mind shipping to the 'States, Dale Labs in Florida offers top-notch service for ECN-II, although they only do one ECN-II run per week. They offer slide prints onto Kodak Vision color print stock from both ECN-II and C-41 emulsions and I have heard nothing but positive comments on the work that they do.

http://www.dalelabs....ntservices.html

They don't list ECN-II processing on the form, but I'd assume that they'd charge $8 for a roll of 24 8-perf pictures on ECN-II, maybe a few dollars more than that. By the foot, just shooting tests with a movie camera is cheaper, but assuming the price of shipping overseas isn't too high, or if you can find a lab in Europe, I'd say shooting stills will save you at least 25% of what you'd spend shooting tests with a MP camera.
  • 0

#9 Charles MacDonald

Charles MacDonald
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1157 posts
  • Other
  • Stittsville Ontario Canada

Posted 12 February 2007 - 08:42 PM

They don't list ECN-II processing on the form, but I'd assume that they'd charge $8 for a roll of 24 8-perf pictures on ECN-II, maybe a few dollars more than that.


Dale charges the same as they do for C-41 films. I just got back another roll where I really wanted slides for a talk I am doing in september. although the CD will end up useful also. This was from Eterna 500T from a 35mm short end.

The other day someone posted that http://www.aandi.com is also offering ECN still service which is on my list to try.

Edited by Charles MacDonald, 12 February 2007 - 08:43 PM.

  • 0

#10 Dan Salzmann

Dan Salzmann
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1143 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Paris, France

Posted 13 February 2007 - 06:15 PM

Get some very short ends from a production company, friends or the short end dealers mentioned.
Go to a lab with a bottle of whiskey and a good attitude and they might sort you out.
  • 0

#11 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 13 February 2007 - 08:34 PM

Get some very short ends from a production company, friends or the short end dealers mentioned.
Go to a lab with a bottle of whiskey and a good attitude and they might sort you out.


Agreed, just not when they're processing your movie :lol:
  • 0

#12 Pepijn Robben

Pepijn Robben
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts
  • Student
  • Brussels Belgium

Posted 14 February 2007 - 11:54 AM

Thanx for all your help

tomorrow i will go to a lab nearby and ask them if they want to develop short ends
with all your information i hope i get some good test that will help me improve my workt

thanx

pepijn

and karl thanx for all your information i hope it works :-) and i get my film loaded

Edited by Pepijn Robben, 14 February 2007 - 11:55 AM.

  • 0

#13 K Borowski

K Borowski
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3905 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • I.A.T.S.E. Local # 600 Eastern Region

Posted 14 February 2007 - 11:18 PM

and karl thanx for all your information i hope it works :-) and i get my film loaded


No problem. Did my description make it clear how it is done, or do you require pictures? I can post some this weekend as I have some Polaroid film laying around and don't really have anything better to do (besides my other actual photography work for the weekend).

~Karl
  • 0


CineLab

Technodolly

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Metropolis Post

FJS International, LLC

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Opal

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Rig Wheels Passport

Tai Audio

Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera

Ritter Battery

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

FJS International, LLC

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Opal

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Glidecam

Abel Cine

CineTape

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies