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#1 Federico Casal

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 12:44 AM

Hi, I'm on doubt.

I want to shoot on film. The thing is my budget is low, around U$S 300. I want the best quality as possible and the best camera I can get my hands on. I was thinking of a Krasnogorsk 3, cheap, 16mm, simple, but I've read some complaints about it. Like, the film is going to get scratched if it doesn't come straight from Russia, and that the fps are irregular because it doesn't have a sync motor. On the other hand, I can get my hands on a super 8 camera. I can get a Nikon R10 easily, but the thing that makes me feel uncomfortable is the idea that super 8 is worse quality than 16mm. I wanted to ask, how worse? What camera should I get? I've seen Bell & Howell 16mm cameras on Ebay... are they better than the Krasnogorsk 3? Do they share the same issue with the variable fps with their motor? Are they quieter?


I will apreciate all details you can give me! Thank to you all. :)


PD: Can you tell what kind of camera is Stanley using?
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#2 Andres Pardo aka Gral Treegan

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:53 AM

Hi, I'm on doubt.

I want to shoot on film. The thing is my budget is low, around U$S 300. I want the best quality as possible and the best camera I can get my hands on. I was thinking of a Krasnogorsk 3, cheap, 16mm, simple, but I've read some complaints about it. Like, the film is going to get scratched if it doesn't come straight from Russia, and that the fps are irregular because it doesn't have a sync motor. On the other hand, I can get my hands on a super 8 camera. I can get a Nikon R10 easily, but the thing that makes me feel uncomfortable is the idea that super 8 is worse quality than 16mm. I wanted to ask, how worse? What camera should I get? I've seen Bell & Howell 16mm cameras on Ebay... are they better than the Krasnogorsk 3? Do they share the same issue with the variable fps with their motor? Are they quieter?
I will apreciate all details you can give me! Thank to you all. :)
PD: Can you tell what kind of camera is Stanley using?
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Hi Federico!!
Nikon R10 is a nice camera to make what you want.

the K3 is a nice camera too, i love this 16 cameras, but if you buy one in ebay, 150-200usd, you need to make some modifications to the k3 so it can run good.
visit olex site geocities.com/russiancamera
i have on that i bought directly from him an works perfect, never a scratch!!
but if you want your short in 16mm with a k3 you wiln spend the entire budget in the camera.

run in super 8, send to spectra, lab and transfer, they work really god and you will have the quality you expect.

about the stanley camera is an arri 16s i think or a 16bl.
have fun with S8!!
Treegan
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#3 Troy Warr

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 02:15 AM

Hi Federico,

With a $300 budget, I think that you're really limited to Super-8. Even if the $300 is only for the camera and you have other money for film stock and processing, it will be very difficult to find an adequate 16mm camera in that price range, but not hard at all to get a good, solid Super-8 camera.

I used to own a Nizo 116, and while it was about as simple as Super-8 cameras get, it was great to learn on. It has a power zoom and a decent lens, 18 and 24 fps. You may be able to find one on eBay for $100 or less.

The Nizo S80 was my second camera, and was even better - 54 fps option, intervalometer, 2-speed power zoom, and an even better lens. You might find one of these on eBay in the $125-200 range.

Nizo (full name is Braun-Nizo, same company that now makes shaving products under the Braun name) was a very good manufacturer, and their cameras are some of the best, in my opinion. They're very well built and are German engineered for precision and robustness.

Keep in mind that you'll also want at least a basic incident light meter, as the reflected meter in Super-8 cameras is often either broken, inaccurate, unreliable, or the battery compartment is corroded. If it still works accurately, you're probably going to have a difficult time finding batteries for the light meter, and even then they're likely to be mercury-free zinc-air batteries, which don't last long and can be relatively expensive. You're also going to get more accurate readings (and learn a lot more) with an incident meter. You might try to find a cheap used Sekonic L-398 or something comparable. You'll also need a projector or some sort of viewer, of course.

Super-8 is certainly not the best quality out there, but since you're a student, your primary responsibility is to learn, and Super-8 will let you do that just as well as 16mm. Don't be too concerned with the quality of the format that you're shooting in, but rather the quality of the images that you're producing. You might want to start with a few rolls of black & white reversal stock, and when you're comfortable with that, some color reversal stock, then move on to negative stock like the offerings from Pro8mm.com - you're going to need to telecine tranfer to video to view the footage, but it will be worth the extra cost at that point since you'll be practiced and can make some nice images.

Best of luck to you!

Edited by Troy Warr, 10 February 2007 - 02:19 AM.

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#4 chris kempinski

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 04:41 AM

Stanley is using an arri 2C. It's a 35mm MOS camera.

I would love to hear more people's accounts on shooting with super8
negative. I have about 6 exposed cartridges in my fridge,
but I have to travel to Seattle for processing and transfer.
Has anyone done a poorman's transfer off a white wall projected
and captured with a 3chip camera then use final cut to make the
positive flip??

cheers
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#5 andres victorero

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 07:17 AM

Hi Federico, your budget is low to go to 16mm camera. In ebay there are lots of K3 at this price but think that you must buy 16mm and process film (more expensive than S8 mm)
There are great super 8 cameraas at your price range (I suggest you the Nikon R10 or canon 10014 XL-S) some in very good condition and if you shoot with Vision 200T or 500T films you can get a very great quaility of your s8 films. My suggest is, go to S8, learn and when you have more money and experience go to 16mm.

Where are you (i´m in spain) ?
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#6 Bernhard Zitz

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 07:54 AM

you must buy 16mm and process film (more expensive than S8 mm)

Processing 16mm is cheaper than processing S8, at least in europe. For the rest 16mm is more expensive.

It's also a logistic and work-flow question.


S8-cameras are easy to use, have build-in lightneter are lite-weight and compact, you change cardidges within seconds.

There aren't a lot of places that process and scan it.

Good cameras can be found very cheap(I had a mint nizo 6080 for 40$, Nizo Pro for 15$ etc...).

Hard to find service for the camera, if the camera is dead I simply buy another one. :D

Hard to find cristalsync and silent cameras.



16mm has better picture quality, cameras are heavier and bigger, mostly you need an external light-meter, if you use longer rolls you need a changing-bag, day-light spools change easy without bag but not as fast and easy like S8-cardridges.

Stock is more expensive(more than twice the price),

Easy to find a lab and post-house.

processing is a little cheaper, scanning is more expensiv(depending the post-house).

Easy to find service.

Easy to find silent sync-cameras but they cost a lot(much more than 300$).


cheers, Bernhard

Edited by Bernhard Zitz, 10 February 2007 - 07:57 AM.

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#7 Federico Casal

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 11:34 AM

Where are you (i´m in spain) ?


Soy de Uruguay.



As far as all, thanks for the help.
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#8 Andres Pardo aka Gral Treegan

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 06:05 PM

Soy de Uruguay.
As far as all, thanks for the help.


Federico!!
que bueno que en uruguay se este pensando en filmar en super 8!! desde mexico DF te saluda General Treegan. si necesitas mas cosas sobre super 8 escribeme generaltreegan@gmail.com
de hecho soy uruguayo tambien y fui de los pocos que revelaron super 8 en montevideo.
saludos!!
Treegan

Edited by General Treegan, 10 February 2007 - 06:06 PM.

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