Jump to content


Photo

Thinking about maybe buying a 35mm camera


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 10 February 2007 - 06:06 PM

Hi,


I'm thinking about making a purchase of a 35mm camera within say a year and am only starting to look into the cameras that are available for sale regularly enough and in my price range, which depending on features could stretch this way or that - very preliminary investigations ...

For what I am interested in shooting, the possible $$$ and weight reductions I'm quite ok with a MOS camera and the Arri 35 IIc style of camera looked interesting... But thats just the first camera I've had a reasonable search for info on, there are no doubt more and it itself comes in so many variations of lens mount etc...

At the moment I'm shooting 16mm with my collection of old and new Bolexes and love the very 'open to modification' interface of the spring wound models and have made a few successful motors and wotnot for them and the EL - question: Is there a 35mm camera smilar to the bolex ? a 35mm known for its penetrability and use in odd/special/time-lapse/60fps+ cinematography ? I understand the Mitchels are used like this ? Though it would be nice to have a camera that could be used handheld also (200' mags etc..) - I guess I'm after the no-compromise package :rolleyes: aware however that it usually doesn't exist.

I'm not going to rush off to eBay and buy immediately but any suggestions appreciated ...

thanks,
Nick Mulder
  • 0

#2 Sam Wells

Sam Wells
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1751 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 11 February 2007 - 11:48 AM

- I guess I'm after the no-compromise package :rolleyes: aware however that it usually doesn't exist.


Hi Nick, I'd love a "35mm Bolex"

Am looking at reflexed Eyemo (a friend shoots with one) but 100' yikes. I'm thinking a 2 perf or even 3 perf Eyemo would be kinda neat. Not that it exists. No contact printing but..... I'd rather Kodak made something like that than a Super 16 camera :) <-- note irony etc please

There's always After Effects and Twixtor, shoot 6 fps it's interframe compression for film :lol:

-Sam
  • 0

#3 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 11 February 2007 - 03:25 PM

You've either said a lot or nothing... I cant quite figure it all out - what has twixtor got to do with my query ?

Have I asked a clunker of a question that shows me to be a fool ?
Are you perhaps referencing some other discussion ?

... perhaps the kodak/super16 one ? ... where its asked why there isn't a super16mm camera with all the features many super8's had decades ago - and here I am asking why there is/isn't a 35mm with all the features of a Bolex ?

So eyemo's can be converted to reflex ?


Question (minus Bolex reference):

What 35mm cine cameras are known for there ease of modification and use in odd/special/time-lapse/60fps+ cinematography ? (and throw in handheld ability for sh!ts'n'giggles)

...they will probably be MOS - and hopefully they are relatively old and therefore relatively cheap
  • 0

#4 Thanasis Diamantopoulos

Thanasis Diamantopoulos
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 99 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • greece

Posted 11 February 2007 - 05:11 PM

You've either said a lot or nothing... I cant quite figure it all out - what has twixtor got to do with my query ?

Have I asked a clunker of a question that shows me to be a fool ?
Are you perhaps referencing some other discussion ?

... perhaps the kodak/super16 one ? ... where its asked why there isn't a super16mm camera with all the features many super8's had decades ago - and here I am asking why there is/isn't a 35mm with all the features of a Bolex ?

So eyemo's can be converted to reflex ?
Question (minus Bolex reference):

What 35mm cine cameras are known for there ease of modification and use in odd/special/time-lapse/60fps+ cinematography ? (and throw in handheld ability for sh!ts'n'giggles)

...they will probably be MOS - and hopefully they are relatively old and therefore relatively cheap


Hi

If you look around the forum you will find a lot of informations about 35 mm cameras in detail.

2c is a very fine camera depenting for the reason you are going to use it. You can purchase a package very cheap and find a lot of spare parts to upgrade the camera crystal motors, pl mounts, cheap lenses, bateries , not heavy at all and still serviced.

Konvas 35 mm are very fine cameras.

Eclair cameflex .
  • 0

#5 Sam Wells

Sam Wells
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1751 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 11 February 2007 - 09:57 PM

You've either said a lot or nothing... I cant quite figure it all out - what has twixtor got to do with my query ?

Nothing but it had to do with my reply --

What 35mm cine cameras are known for there ease of modification and use in odd/special/time-lapse/60fps+ cinematography ? (and throw in handheld ability for sh!ts'n'giggles)


All of those, Mitchell - Fries/Mitchell (a Steven Williams answer would be better than mine - the only Mitchell I've actually used is S35R - a great camera - not sure about 60 fps...). Too heavy though --

--Maybe your definition of "35 Bolex" is different than mine - for me no heavy cameras & batteries - I need fast and flexible ---

Arri 235 actually might work for me (and handheld ability) but not my pocketbook :(

The original idea for Aaton 35 might have been the ticket, had Godard been less obstreperous...

-Sam
  • 0

#6 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19769 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 11 February 2007 - 10:07 PM

2c is a very fine camera depenting for the reason you are going to use it.

Konvas 35 mm are very fine cameras.

Eclair cameflex .


Those are the three most common 35mm cameras for people on a budget.
  • 0

#7 Dennis Kisilyov

Dennis Kisilyov
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 152 posts
  • Other

Posted 11 February 2007 - 10:08 PM

In consensus with David Mullen.

MOS/Timelapse Cheap 35mm with tweaks and mods are


ARRI 2C
Konvas 2M
  • 0

#8 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 12 February 2007 - 02:16 AM

I've researched a little on the 2M - apparently only goes up to 32fps but its things like this that make it a possible choice.

Upon talking to a friend and asking the same question re. cameras, he suggested the IIC and mentioned a colleague who has one for sale currently - its a monster package though - three 400' mags and four 200' mags, many lenses, tap and even an underwater housing ( :blink: ) thrown in if I remember correctly, I'm getting the full list soon - all of it together might be out of my price range but I could sell on what I dont need...

thanks for the info so far ...
  • 0

#9 Dan Salzmann

Dan Salzmann
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1143 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Paris, France

Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:08 PM

Arri IIC is a fine camera that can be adapted, added to etc.
I shoot with a reflexed Eyemo for some things but reflexed Eyemos can not be PL mounted.
A Nikon mount Eyemo can run both spring wound (clockwork) or with an external motor making it similar to a Bolex.
Cameflex is a good camera but I do not think many techs are fond of them. Never heard of any intervalometer made for the Cameflex.
Mitchell's are way too heavy for handheld unless you're Hulk.
Hope this helps.
  • 0

#10 dancordle

dancordle
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Director

Posted 12 February 2007 - 01:42 PM

The Arri 2C, the Konvas 2M are good choices. The Cameflex too.

I researched all three before purchasing a Konvas 2M with a 17EP-16APK motor. Since then, I've added a timelapse motor (Tobin TTL), a videotap, and several accessories. The Aranda Group in Australia and SlowMotion in California make motors for the camera. There are at least three very good techs for the camera in the U.S. and several excellent technicians abroad, including Olex Kalychenko - who often posts here.

Best Regards,
Dan Corle
  • 0

#11 GeorgeSelinsky

GeorgeSelinsky
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 718 posts

Posted 12 February 2007 - 08:29 PM

I'd say the Eyemo is the closest camera to a Bolex in terms of format, but it's rougher and heavier than a Bolex. If the Bolex feels like a clock, the Eyemo by contrast feels more like a sewing machine. You really get the sense that it's a combat camera, like this thing takes both 35mm film and 30-06 cartridges. I wouldn't be surprised if throughout WWII there were a few Nazi casualties from hurled Eyemos :D

No frame counters unfortunately like on some Bolexes. You can do nice animation motors for it though, it has a shaft.

Reflex eyemos often run about three times or more the cost of a stock non reflex. Some outfit out in Texas has a PL mount Eyemo reflex package as high as $10,000. They keep putting it on ebay but nobody bothers to bid on it. You're dealing with a pellicle or prism reflex here which will have some light loss. There were a lot of Nikon mount reflex Eyemo's. They used to go for around 2-3 g's.

If you attach a motor to the Eyemo it's going to add weight and make loads of noise. I had a 120 vac motor for it and it sounded like the dentist's drill.

The Arri IIc is no Bolex. It's a great camera, and for a 400' camera it handholds pretty well. It's designed for utmost simplicity and that's why it's great. No frame counters, footage counter is on the mag and goes straight off the film itself. The motor coupling might be a pain if you want to design motors, it's a threaded gear.

Konvas is basically the same animal as the Cameflex. Really noisy, I'd say a tad louder than the IIc. Also has a threaded gear I THINK, forgot.
  • 0

#12 Stuart McCammon

Stuart McCammon
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 139 posts
  • Producer
  • 95010

Posted 14 February 2007 - 01:14 PM

I just saw an Arri BL3 for rent for $200/day. Pick that up with a set of 10 or 20 year old primes and accessories, and you have a synch sound camera that will produce images that are on par with just about anything out there, and if you have a problem you just call up the rental house and they send you a replacement.

Simple, cheap and easy - the film production trifecta)
  • 0

#13 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 14 February 2007 - 02:35 PM

I want the camera to be on hand at all times - not for a particular production but to help me make the gadgets/motors/wotzits I'm making, including modifications to the camera itself...
  • 0

#14 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 15 February 2007 - 01:46 AM

Hi,

I checked out a 2c camera package quickly today - was wondering if the kind folks here could give me their impressions of the following:

Arri 35 IIc - 4-perf Super35 gate and hardfront PL-mount (re-centred) - (however, viewfinder has not been extended or centred)

Cinematography Electronics 2C CRYSTAL MOTOR BASE (1-80 fps)

Original motors, variable speed wild and goverened 24fps versions (both unused for some time)

3 x 400' mags (at least one is reversable)
4 x 200' mags

Video split (color) and monitor - no details on brand etc...

Arri 4x4 matte box with a bunch of filters + 3x3 matte box, no details on that yet...

9.8mm Kinoptic
14mm Canon f2.8
18mm Zeiss Super Speed f1.4
25mm Cooke f2
35mm Schneider f2
50mm Zeiss Sonar f1.5
50mm Cooke f2
75mm Cooke f2
85mm Zeiss Super Speed f1.4
400mm Leitz Telyt f5

Miller tripod - no details but its a fluid head and well large enough to hold this camera

Batteries, charger, shoulder brace, road cases, bits'in'bobs etc...


The Cinematography Electronics motor is mint - the rest of the package is showing the normal wear and wear for an older camera, of the lens elements I got a chance to inspect they were all optically perfect or at least 9 out of 10 - It started out in the New Zealand Natural History Film Unit and then was sold to the current owner for use on features (it spent sometime in an underwater housing) and 2nd unit shooting of Hercules and Xena. A bit noisier than I was expecting, especially the mags - but I've been shooting 16mm, so I dont know what to expect.

>>>What should I be looking at/for ? What sort of price would this go for ?

I'll try to get a pic or two up

any help appreciated !

Nick
  • 0

#15 Jon Kukla

Jon Kukla
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 399 posts
  • Other

Posted 15 February 2007 - 05:43 PM

Yeah, the 2C is a noisy camera, no doubts.
Check out
how huge the blimp was just to make it sync-sound compatible! A beast. If you are fine with MOS shooting, though, it has been, is, and will likely remain one of the best, smallest, and most versatile 35mm cameras. With a PL mount, it seems like a great package (if the price is in your range).

Another advantage of getting a 2C is that it's a very well-known camera which even now still sees some standard usage in major production (though now often as a crash cam or low-rent extra camera). And it is the granddaddy of modern Arri camera design - much of the basic mechanics and design forms the basis of their successor cameras.

And of course these factors above all mean that finding accessories is much easier. Personally, if it were up to me, I'd say that the 2C or the Eyemo are your best bets (depending on your exact needs and budget), mainly because of their ubiquity, familiarity, and accessibility.

Edited by Jon Kukla, 15 February 2007 - 05:44 PM.

  • 0

#16 Nick Mulder

Nick Mulder
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1023 posts
  • Other
  • Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 15 February 2007 - 07:54 PM

it seems like a great package (if the price is in your range).

If I had a million dollars and it cost $500,000 it would be in my range - but obviously that aint no deal!

Do you have any idea of the worth of a package like that ?

Are the lenses good ?

that blimp looks like it could double as a good underwater housing - its massive !
  • 0

#17 Simon Wyss

Simon Wyss
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1415 posts
  • Other
  • Basel, Switzerland

Posted 31 January 2010 - 04:40 AM

Nick, I’ve just read your initial question, ...now what is the 'bolex' of 35mm ?, and should like to add that there was a 35-mm. film Bolex. Its name was Cinégraphe Bol and it’s been on display at the 1923 Geneva national exhibition.

Jacques Bogopolsky and Charles Haccius together legally owned the trade mark Bolex from 1924 on. This Cinégraphe flopped entirely. It has a a double side five claw movement, a drum shutter, fixed lens, peep-sight parallax viewfinder, crank and screw-on clockwork drive.

My theory is that this Haccius made a deal with one of the U. S. companies after the total failure of the Bol company in 1929-30. The Paillard-Bolex H cameras are not swiss, not Bogopolsky’s design. Possibly Rochester, perhaps Chicago
  • 0

#18 John Sprung

John Sprung
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4635 posts
  • Other

Posted 01 February 2010 - 03:08 AM

A 35mm camera will inevitably have to be larger than a 16mm Bolex if it is to shoot an equivalent run time.

The Konvas looks like the best choice. It's similar in shape, just bigger, with a 200 ft. magazine. That's just short of the same run time as 100 ft. of 16. Actually you'd need 250 ft. to be exactly equal. Another advantage is that you can use a 400 ft. magazine, too. These cameras are plentitful and relatively easy to modify.

The Eclair Cameflex CM3 is the camera that inspired the Konvas design. They're very similar in size and shape, but very few still exist, and if you can find one, it might be better treated as an historic classic camera, and not modified.

The Arri II-C is an excellent choice if you want to go a little larger than the Konvas, and the Eyemo if you want to go smaller.




-- J.S.
  • 0

#19 Olex Kalynychenko

Olex Kalynychenko
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine

Posted 01 February 2010 - 03:22 AM

I'm quite ok with a MOS camera and the Arri 35 IIc style of camera looked interesting...

.... 35mm known for its penetrability and use in odd/special/time-lapse/60fps+ cinematography ? I


Konvas-2M camera
200, 400 ft film magazines,
17EP-16APK ( 19EP-16 APK ) motors.


17EP-16 APK, 19EP-16 APK motor can be upgrade on modern electronics.
This can be controllers with fixec list of speeds, speed synthesizers and time lapse.

2213 controller have list of speed:
6.250 8 10 12 12.5 15 16 16.666 20 23.976 24 25 29.970 30 32 33.333 36 40 48 50 60 fps .
Time Lapse :1, 2, 4, 8, 15, 30, 60, 120, 240,600 900, sec.
Digital film counter.
LCD display.
  • 0


FJS International, LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Abel Cine

The Slider

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineLab

Willys Widgets

CineTape

Tai Audio

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Opal

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Tai Audio

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

The Slider

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

CineTape

Technodolly