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grain without push process, just rating?


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#1 Rob Wilton

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 05:34 PM

Dear all,

please help me out...... based on a student shoot that is going to digibeta through digital transfer

Im shooting a short on 500T and would like to add some grain, in camera. Push process development is more expensive so I was thinking whether this was possible by just rating the stock at 800 ASA or even 1000 ASA.

If u rate 500T at 800 ASA, including the greyscale.....will the negative show up underexposed at the TK and then be brought up to normal exposure, so adding digital grain(?)

Or will the less-dense negative show up normal with the added grain and rest of the bag that comes with it?

Something I really dont know - do labs look at greyscales for neg development?


thanks so much for you help!

Rob Wilton
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#2 K Borowski

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 08:42 PM

Dear all,

please help me out...... based on a student shoot that is going to digibeta through digital transfer

Im shooting a short on 500T and would like to add some grain, in camera. Push process development is more expensive so I was thinking whether this was possible by just rating the stock at 800 ASA or even 1000 ASA.

If u rate 500T at 800 ASA, including the greyscale.....will the negative show up underexposed at the TK and then be brought up to normal exposure, so adding digital grain(?)

Or will the less-dense negative show up normal with the added grain and rest of the bag that comes with it?

Something I really dont know - do labs look at greyscales for neg development?
thanks so much for you help!

Rob Wilton


Yes, you can get grain by underexposing, though your image will start to look "yucky" past maybe 1 1/2 stops under. I wouldn't go two under. Is this 16 or 35mm? You can already see grain in SD with 500T film. Shoot 16mm and underexpose 1 stop and see how that works. TECHNICALLY, with ECN-2 there's now true speed increase with a one-stop push, you're just increasing the contrast of the grains already there, but, in practice, I'd say the 500T underexposed a stock will be muddier and slower than a 500T pushed one. I'd say fire off 100 feet of 500T and find a lab that'll do a push on a partial roll of film to see if the underexposed one stop film gives you quality that is good enough that you can forego a push. I'd be worried about getting electronic noise from telecine-ing too thin a negatie as well.

Regards,

~Karl Borowski
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#3 Rob Wilton

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 03:37 AM

Oh sorry, Im shooting 16mm
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 10:53 AM

Labs don't look at grey scales for processing. How could they? Processing is done in total darkness and the image hasn't even been formed yet until they process it. Labs process according to your instructions: Normal, Push, or Pull (and by how many stops.) The grey scale is for the person doing the timing of the video transfer or print (if you're not there it supervise) to know what "normal" is, a neutral reference that is hard to misinterpret.

Push-processing is not that expensive if you want that effect.
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#5 Rupe Whiteman

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 11:23 AM

... and if you underexpose colours will start to saturate more...
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#6 John Holland

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 11:42 AM

No they will desaturate, over expose they will become more saturated.
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#7 Chris Keth

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 01:09 PM

If you're shooting 16mm on fast stock, just rate it normally. it will look a bit grainy. If you want really grainy, underexpose a half or 2/3 of a stop.

With 16, the trick is not making really grainy footage. Making 16 grainy is easy.
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