Jump to content


Photo

"look" Settings


  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#1 Brant Collins

Brant Collins
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 165 posts
  • Producer
  • Little Rock, Arkansas

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:01 AM

I just got a DVX100 and want to make different ?looks" in the camera using the color and gamma settings. Example the look of the Matrix or a bleached bypass look, or supper saturated look. Anyone doing this in camera? I have attached a sample of a look I am wanting to mimic.

Thanks
brant collins
www.brantcollins.com

Attached Images

  • video_look.jpg

  • 0

#2 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:25 AM

I'd say that there are some limited settings that you can achieve with a camera like the DVX but personally I have found that filters such as Nattress for FCP in post (http://www.nattress....filmeffects.htm) can give you a range of settings that cameras can't achieve at that level by itself. I just finished an instructional video using such filters to create a wide assortment of looks including bleach bypass that I would have had trouble accomplishing in camera the way I wanted them. Best of all, I was not locked into any one look from shooting and recording a particular look, but had the ability at altering the look after the fact. The shot you show in your posy seems more like combinations of underexposure and highlighting either with lighting or in post effects than simply a particular camera setting.

Edited by Walter Graff, 25 February 2007 - 11:28 AM.

  • 0

#3 Daniel Carruthers

Daniel Carruthers
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 334 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Canada

Posted 25 February 2007 - 12:14 PM

Hi
I own a dvx and I like to achieve most of the look in camera myself.
I would first lower the detail and v-detail down to -3, they take the hard edge off the image.
I would lower the chroma level to -7, desaturating the image.
I would lower the chroma phase to -7, gives a slight greenish tinge to the image.
maybe even add a bit of blue, try raiseing the colour temperture to +2 or +3, just enough to cool the skin tones,but not enough to see the blue.
I like to keep the master peds at -5
Keep the matrix on normal,its the least saturated giving a more desaturated look
I like to shoot cinegamma, giving you the most dynamic range.Just watch for over exposure.
keep the lighting high contrast, lots of silohettes keep the key light overexposed by at least 1 stop, use no fill light. I would also keep the lights clean from any gels, except colour componsating gels, just as long as your white balanced to those gels. you'll have a cleaner image giving you more room for minipulation in post if you need it?


one more thing

I also like to shoot wide open, just use the nd filters, you may want to buy a 2 stop nd filter n6.
This camer is dreadfull for its strong depth of field,which can be good if your filming a home movie.
but not if your trying to make a movie.
just remember shoot on a 45mm lens and keep the aperture wide open.
  • 0

#4 Brant Collins

Brant Collins
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 165 posts
  • Producer
  • Little Rock, Arkansas

Posted 25 February 2007 - 08:37 PM

Thanks for the info Walter the plug in filters look nice but I like to do more in camera effects.

Thanks Daniel, I am going to try what you suggested.
  • 0

#5 Nemanja N. Jovanov

Nemanja N. Jovanov

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 14 March 2007 - 01:34 PM

Thanks for the info Walter the plug in filters look nice but I like to do more in camera effects.

Thanks Daniel, I am going to try what you suggested.


I we used settings similar to Daniel (previous post), and extend image control during post (if you capture material over SDI in uncompressed 10bit, you can achieve very good control, having in mind that you are shooting on DV 25Mb).

Shooting a feature I followed approach that f-stop (exposure) is used to control highlights (not to lose them), and in camera settings to control blacks. Try experimenting with diferent gamma settings. CINE GAMA_D will give you more dynamic range in black and CINE GAMA_V will shorten the range. If You cimbine this with M.PED level you can manage to control blacks very precisely. In some point I streched blacks (with pedestal), managing to define wery nice scale in darks. Later in post you can precisely define what is black and what is near to black and with some details.
Experiments with waveform monitor, and lab (if you are shooting for film) are very good thing, and can give you good idea what to set on camera and what to leave for post.



Regards,

Nemanja N. Jovanov
  • 0

#6 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 14 March 2007 - 11:04 PM

I'd say that there are some limited settings that you can achieve with a camera like the DVX but personally I have found that filters such as .....


Correct me if I'm wrong - I could've sworn this was the DXV100 area. Not the plug-ins area.

Part of the allure of the DVX line is the ability to do in-camera image manipulation. Nattress and Magic Bullet are great. For what they do. And if you want to play around with software all day and render out what can't be photographed with a DVX. Sorry to nit-pick but come on...

I've seen several uses of custom DVX settings that blew me away. That's with manual white balance, proper exposure and a solid operator. Not additional and unwanted computer time.

There's a thread on dvxuser.com with several different shared settings.

http://www.dvxuser.c...ead.php?t=88846

With regards to sharing, this template seems to help cut to the nitty-gritty.......

MASTER PEDESTAL:
MATRIX:
DETAIL LEVEL:
DETAIL CORING:
V DETAIL LEVEL:
V DETAIL FREQ:
GAMMA:
KNEE:
CHROMA LEVEL:
CHROMA PHASE:
COLOR TEMP:
SKIN TONE DTL:
PROGRESSIVE:
  • 0

#7 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 14 March 2007 - 11:29 PM

Then this might be a secret but...


no camera or software can replace talent. You can set your DVX anyway you want but if you can't light, can't compose, can't shoot, then you've got a DVX that has the potential for great pictures, just as a hammer has the potential to build a house. Same is true for plug ins. Nattress is not going to make you a great cinematographer. It's a tool and if you know how to shoot Natress can make you a better cinematographer. With today's tools I find it great to do what I can in camera and then do even more with color grading etc. But for me as an experienced pro, having tools in both production and post can really push what I do over the edge and in some cases fix what I lacked in one or the other. Here is an article about one such instance where time, budget and simply the situation meant I needed post production to help me make what I shot work better:

http://www.bluesky-web.com/sun.htm

And sometimes I use post to help take a great shot I created and make it even better. But to say that you can only use one or the other is a bit snobbish to me. Hey if you only want to do it in camera great but I hope one doesn't hold their nose up and say that is the only way it should be done. Reality is it can't always be done in camera in some situations so knowing what can help you make it what you want after the fact is important to know too, especially in the areas of color where these prosumer cameras often need help in post.
  • 0

#8 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 15 March 2007 - 11:06 AM

Then this might be a secret but... no camera or software can replace talent. {EDIT} But to say that you can only use one or the other is a bit snobbish to me. Hey if you only want to do it in camera great but I hope one doesn't hold their nose up and say that is the only way it should be done.

Nothing snobbish about my statement and I stand by it. I am merely stating the obvious.
Apparently there remains some confusion on your end.

As indicated above, this is:

"Cinematography.com > Cinematography Forums > Video Only > Panasonic AG-DVX100A > "look" Settings"

I don't see NLE's, effects, Nattress, Magic Bullet, Plug-Ins or software of any kind mentioned. Why confuse the issue?

I also use all of these tools (and more) when cc'ing and grading for broadcast and film-out. I also discuss their use in their respective forums.

I believe that Brant Collins began this thread to discuss "look" settings - not to hear your thoughts on workflow with links to your website. As "an experienced pro", I'm sure you can appreciate the need to stay on-topic.
  • 0

#9 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 15 March 2007 - 05:09 PM

Having just read that..... Sounds like I needed some coffee. Someone woke up on the wrong side of the edit bay. To that end, I offer an olive branch.

I agree - great shots can be made better by post-processing. I use and enjoy all the products and workflows you described, Walt.

I ran across {but have not tested} these DVX digits.....

saving private ryan
chroma level -7
chroma phase 2
color temp -1
master ped -12
gamma - low
knee - high
matrix - norm
24p
(be sure to add a high shutter speeed!)

minority report
detail level 1
v detail level 2
detail coring 6
chroma level 2
chroma phase -4
color temp 4
master ped -11
a iris -4
gamma - cine like v
matrix - flou
24p

70's
detail level -4
v detail level -7
detail coring 3
chroma level -7
chroma phase 1
color temp -6
master ped 7
a iris -4
gamma - cine like v
matrix cine-like
24p

(Courtesy of dvxuser.com)
  • 0

#10 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 18 March 2007 - 04:21 PM

I ran across these listed as Barry Green's 'sometimes-used' settings.... I have seen a set he listed elsewhere as 'most-often' used but I can't determine whether these are the same or not. Again, this is a post-from-a-post so I apologize in advance if (for some reason) they are not exact. You know - that Barry Green... author, expert, Panny fan.....


Master Ped: -8
Matric: CINE
Detail LVL: -2
Detail Coring: 2
V Detail LVL: -1
V Detail FREQ: THIN
Gamma: CINE_D
Knee: LOW
Chroma LVL: 2
Chromas PHASE: 0
Color TEMP: 0 or -1
Skin Tone DTL: OFF
Progressive: 24pA
  • 0

#11 Brant Collins

Brant Collins
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 165 posts
  • Producer
  • Little Rock, Arkansas

Posted 20 March 2007 - 11:00 PM

Thanks to all for the great info. I am going to try all the settings. I will try and post results. I am using my old trusty 1.25 Powerbook to edit. So any thing I can do in camera let's me save rendering time. I got the DVX100 so I could get different looks. I do like plug-ins but for me personally I want to learn more about my camera. I also use filters(not software) but real glass ones:)

I read an interesting article about the using HD on Battle Star Galactica and much time was spent to get what they call a "Nuclear Look" not film look, not video look, but a look that would be different and help tell the story.
And sometimes in a fast paced environment like TV broadcast you do not have the time to render, even if you have the best computers.

Thanks again for all the responses, this forum is a great resource!

Brant Collins
  • 0

#12 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 22 March 2007 - 02:33 PM

I hear you, Brant. I'm experimenting myself, hence the reason for digging up all those different settings. This thrread could maybe serve as a central spot to share what we find that works.

I realize it's not specific to the DVX100 but addresses what you'd just described regarding TV work. There's been a lot of debate elsewhere on the exaggerated, stylistic look of "CSI: Miami" and how it's been achieved.

Co-DP Charles Mills has this to say in the latest issue of American Cinematographer:

"If you're going to suspend disbelief, just go all the way. People assume it's all done in post, but it's not - all the colors are done in camera with filtration and colored lights. The visuals are so important to this show."
  • 0

#13 Brant Collins

Brant Collins
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 165 posts
  • Producer
  • Little Rock, Arkansas

Posted 23 March 2007 - 10:51 AM

I do like looks but I believe you need to stick with one look per projects. I see to many different looks in one project sometimes. I was a fine art major in college(sculpture) I did a "moder art" piece once and my professor said something I will alway remember. He said if you are going for a "look" make sure you do it overstated and don't hold back, if you do it looks like you just had bad technique.
  • 0

#14 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 25 March 2007 - 06:48 AM

Not bad advice indeed.

I've been experimenting mainly to get to know the settings better. My current project is a documentary so there will end up being 2 very different scenarios and testing to determine settings for each.

Basically:

1. Single-person 'talking-head' interviews with a 3-point kit (black rolling off into shadows, shallow DOF)

2. Western exteriors b-roll (Colorado & Utah electric-blue sky, red rock canyon country)

We're using a filter stack of 77mm ND's and a Hoya 'Moose'. The 'Moose' is a combo wwarming / circular polarizer filter that really helps pop the clouds and cuts down on glare. Some people say there's no need for a warming filter since you can shift towards red with COLOR TEMP but I like getting the light as pretty as possible before it even gets into the camera. Thing is (obviously) you have to white-balance before you put the filter on or it will actually negate / reverse the effect.

Will probably end up changing the Vertical Detai below in addition to bringing down the auto-iris level. I don't use the auto-iris - only as a reference for manual exposure.

"Denver Buttered Toast" Settings Test:

DETAIL -3
V DETAIL -1
CORING +2
CHROMA +3
C PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP -2
PED -8
A.IRIS 0
GAMMA CINELIKE V
KNEE LOW
SKIN DTL OFF
V DTL THIN
24p

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image






I can't vouch for these but a shooter out of Virginia posted these as digits he was given for a "Flip That House" shoot from the production company:

PED -5
MATRIX CiINELIKE
DETAIL -4
CORING 0
V DETAIL 0
V DETAIL THICK
GAMMA CINELIKE
KNEE AUTO
CHROMA 0
C PHASE 0
TEMP 0
SKIN DTL ON
A. IRIS -3
24p
  • 0

#15 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 16 April 2007 - 04:43 AM

This is from Andy Starbuck (DVXuser.com):

Here is a link to some sample images of scene settings I created for a contest submission. http://www.kymovie.c...xyearsunder.htm

All of the looks were inspired by movies I admire.

The settings for these looks are as follows:


"Normal"
Detail Level 0
V. Detail 0
Detail Coring 0
Chroma Level 0
Chroma Phase 0
Color Temp 0
Master Ped 0
A.Iris +2
Gamma CINE-V
Knee AUTO
Skin DTL OFF
Matrix CINE-LIKE

"SuperSat"
Detail Level +2
V. Detail 0
Detail Coring +2
Chroma Level +7
Chroma Phase 0
Color Temp 0
Master Ped 0
A.Iris +4
Gamma CINE-V
Knee AUTO
Skin DTL OFF
Matrix CINE-LIKE

"6under"
Detail Level -1
V. Detail 0
Detail Coring 0
Chroma Level -7
Chroma Phase -4
Color Temp +6
Master Ped -2
A.Iris +2
Gamma B.PRESS
Knee MID
Skin DTL OFF
Matrix NORM

"Germany"
Detail Level -1
V. Detail 0
Detail Coring 0
Chroma Level -7
Chroma Phase +4
Color Temp -5
Master Ped -3
A.Iris +2
Gamma LOW
Knee MID
Skin DTL OFF
Matrix CINE-LIKE

"Moonlight"
Detail Level +4
V. Detail 0
Detail Coring +2
Chroma Level -7
Chroma Phase +4
Color Temp +7
Master Ped +8
A.Iris +2
Gamma B.PRESS
Knee MID
Skin DTL OFF
Matrix FLUO

"SkipB"
Detail Level +2
V. Detail 0
Detail Coring -3
Chroma Level -6
Chroma Phase +5
Color Temp 0
Master Ped -12
A.Iris +4
Gamma HIGH
Knee HIGH
Skin DTL OFF
Matrix FLUO
  • 0

#16 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 12 May 2007 - 12:27 AM

The comp jpeg might be a bit small to see much detail but it beats the size of the last batch {I think}. Anyway, basically a variation on the earlier test, this one is "UV Haze & Toxic Gas".

The circular polarizer helped with the mile-high UV blast of sun that we have here but there's not much I can do about the industrial energy complex that is Commerce City, Colorado.

Posted Image

UV HAZE & TOXIC GAS SCENE FILE:

DETAIL -2
V DETAIL LEVEL -4
DETAIL CORING +3
CHROMA LEVEL +3
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP -2
MASTER PED -5
A. IRIS LEVEL -2
GAMMA CINELIKE V
KNEE (N/A)
MATRIX CINELIKE
SKIN DTL OFF
V DETAIL FREQ MID
PROGRESSIVE 24pA
  • 0

#17 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 12 May 2007 - 11:30 AM

This is from DVFilm.com out of Austin. You know - the Raylight, DVFilm Maker guys. These are their suggested setings for film-out. Again - just adding to this growing list of different digits...

DVX100/DVX100A Suggested settings for Transfer to Film or Use with DVFilm Maker

SHUTTER = OFF (1/50th). 1/60th sec may also be used, but only to reduce flicker with florescent or arc lighting in 60Hz countries (like the USA).
ATW (Auto Tracking White Balance) = OFF

SCENE FILE:
? DETAIL LEVEL = -3 (see note 1)
? CHROMA LEVEL = 0
? CHROMA PHASE = 0
? COLOR TEMP = 0
? MASTER PED = -6 (see note 2)
? A. IRIS LEVEL = -1
? GAMMA = CINE-LIKE (for DVX100A use CINE-LIKE-V)
? SKIN TONE DTL = OFF
? MATRIX = NORMAL
? V DETAIL FREQ = THIN
? PROGRESSIVE = 24P(ADV) for NTSC / 25P for PAL models
? CAMERA SETUP:
? ASPECT CONV = NORM (4:3)
? SETUP = 0%
? SW MODE:
? ATW = OFF
? RECORDING SETUP:
? REC SPEED = SP
? AUDIO REC = 16BIT
? DISPLAY SETUP:
? ZEBRA DETECT 2 = 100% ? ZEBRA DETECT 1 may be useful at 80% to set skin tones just below 80, as suggested by Steve Mullen's guidebook on the DVX100.
  • 0

#18 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 02 June 2007 - 05:19 AM

Looking to keep the thread alive..... Anyone else got any scene file settings to share?

This is called "The Office" from 'heisest' on dvxuser.com.......

Detail Level: +7
V Detail Level: +7
Detail Coring: +7
Chroma Level: -7
Chroma Phase: -7
Color Temp: -2
Master Ped: -10
A.Iris Level: +2
Gamma: Cine-Like
Knee: (Auto)
Matrix: Norm
Skin Tone Dtl: Off
V Detail Freq: Thin
Progressive: 24P(ADV)
  • 0

#19 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 09 June 2007 - 04:04 PM

I realize many of my scene files border on the 'warm' side and this is no exception. Someone elsewhere had asked about a 'Mexico' look for an upcoming shoot. Not sure it this fits the bill but I'd like to keep this thread going.

There have many 'views' but no real 'shares' to speak of. Come on, people, share some settings digits!

Anyway, the contrast here is strong (CINELIKE V). Blacks are conservatively solid with MASTER PEDESTAL at -6 {w/o being crushed}. I do need to bring the V. DETAIL down a bit. The idea was to pull out most of the chroma and warm what's left, creating the sense of late afternoon sun bouncing around, with a hint of the underlying color.

So, here's "Warm Rust" ( I know - lame name but oh well....)

DETAIL -3
V DETAIL +2
DETAIL CORING +2
CHROMA LVL -7
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP -5
M. PEDESTAL -6
A. IRIS -2
GAMMA CINELIKE V
KNEE (n/a)
MATRIX CINELIKE
V DTL THIN
SKIN DTL OFF
24pA

Posted Image
  • 0

#20 Michael McIntyre

Michael McIntyre
  • Sustaining Members
  • 96 posts
  • Other
  • Denver, Colorado

Posted 10 June 2007 - 06:50 PM

Another 'borrow' from dvxuser.com. This one comes from Senior Member "bwest" (Cambridge, Mass.).

He posted these settings in order "to help with the blocky reds. Thats in-camera setting specifically designed for video noise and chroma noise...all inherent to dv-25 [minidv]. This happens to all minidv cameras with high pixel counts on the ccd's."

I haven't used these and some may disagree with the reasoning behind their intended posting but here goes:

RED DE-NOISER........

DETAIL -5
V.DETAIL 0
DETAIL CORING plus+4
CHROMA LEVEL -4
CHROMA PHASE 0
COLOR TEMP 0
MASTER PED -5
AUTO IRIS on
GAMMA / CONTRAST blk press
KNEE low
SKIN TONE DTL on
MATRIX norm\

then use the "chroma blur" or its equivalent in post!
  • 0


rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Opal

CineLab

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Wooden Camera

Technodolly

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Opal

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

CineLab

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

CineTape

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc