Jump to content


Photo

First time filmmaker needs advice


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1 muhammet gucenmez

muhammet gucenmez

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Other

Posted 25 February 2007 - 12:25 PM

Hello,

We are planning to start filming in 10 days but not sure which format to choose.
Initially i wanted to have JVC's 720p HDV with PS&35mm lenses because of the work flow. Then the DoP came on board and I ended up in confusion. He is very certain about DVCpro HD with the ps and 35mm lenses, . The film is likely to be shown in the festivals but anything beyond this is very unlikely.
Now I look at the work flow of this P2 cards and it looks like it is not the easiest flow unless you have a HDD and a NLE system around so the p2 can be transfered. (we don't have these)
I have two questions from anyone who are familiar with this situation and will appreciate any advice on these.

1-)is JVC HDV, HD 100E recording on tape any reasonable format? or is DVCpro HD on p2 a definetly superior format? (both 720p)

2-)Is it possible to transfer files from p2 cards straight to an external HDD like a g-raid for example? (without any use of a laptop or desktop NLE system)

Thanks.
  • 0

#2 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 25 February 2007 - 12:38 PM

Both HDV and P2 record a near identical quality picture if you are talking about the JVC camera with teh HVX nothing more than subjective taste to tell you which is 'better'. There is a lot of myth going around about HDV (as in how bad it is) and a lot of myth about DVCPRO in the form of P2 (as in how much better it is than HDV). Both cameras are in the same price point and both cameras make more equal quality pictures than not. Beyond that it's usually numbers that people concentrate on, numbers that mostly mean more as specs in a brochure than what you get in realty with the performance of the cameras. I've seen great things shot on both and have used both extensively and if you asked me which was my choice, I'd go for tape over P2 at this point in time. No offense but it's your first outting and you need as little technical issues or steps in getting yorur picture recorded as possible. Or said another way DVCPRO in the from of the HVX is not any better in terms of end product than JVCs version. Don't let specs tell you your story, there are more factors involved that make both cameras more equal than not, in fact one less than it is advertized to be as many who have tested both report including my testing. A camera does not make a great story, a good script does and a good script can be forgiven if it is not shot well but a bad script is junk even if it looks amazing.
  • 0

#3 muhammet gucenmez

muhammet gucenmez

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • Other

Posted 25 February 2007 - 05:35 PM

Thanks for your reply.
I have seen your JVC/Panasonic comparison link as well. And it has been very helpful.
I think we will stick with the original idea which was HDV/JVC.
  • 0

#4 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 25 February 2007 - 06:13 PM

As I say in my look at both cameras, they both work well, and what one chooses with them really comes down to ergonomics as both can produce a good picture. I did find more bang for the buck with the JVC than the HVX200 in my comparisons. But considering you are new to this you will not gain anything using P2 over HDV in terms of quality. Too many folks are looking at numbers as the end all in terms of 'better'. It's sort of silly really as when you average out all the specs of two cameras and actual performance in the same price point you get the same camera regardless of the marketing crap these manufactures make up.

I've got a new saying I've been using for the new breed of filmmaking (new as in what young filmmakers are concerned with these days too much as I see it) and it goes like this:

Filmmaking is like Scrabble. You find letters and put them together to tell a story in a word. But today too many people are concerned with how many points the letters are worth rather than actually making up words and playing the game. As a result I see post after post of 'tests' which involve a shot of someone's sink, stove, a bottle of laundry detergent, a poster of a green ghost or some shot of a mountain all for you to look at on a 3 inch by 4 inch movie, with the crazy idea that this will be able to tell you anything about how well a camera performs. But I see very little actual filmmaking. We seem to have a new generation of 'test' filmmakers who want to constantly prove the gold standard rather than creating stories and telling them visually. Sort of a modern day 'fools gold'.

Don't get caught on the technological bandwagon as it has little to do with filmmaking. Some of the best films I have seen as of late made by what I call the 'sweat and tears' filmmakers had nothing at all to do with what camera they used or what format. In the end no one cares. Yet everyone thinks their first foray in filmmaking is going to have them distributed in theaters around the country so they need the best of the best or else. Worry about making something someone wants to actually watch rather than a pipe dream that your first film will catapult you to stardom and that some $3000 camera is going to make your film any better.

And I should add that it's not just the newbie's anymore. It's becoming a virus that is affecting everyone. I just returned to a professional board (CML) only to leave again because the board as we started it some years ago on AOL was about cinematography and the art and now has nothing but conversations about tech specs and which tools are 'better', and is infiltrated by more sales people than cinematographers rather than cinematographers talking about cinematography and the art of filmmaking.

Good luck on your project! I hope it becomes everything you want it to be.
  • 0

#5 Michael Nash

Michael Nash
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3330 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Pasadena, CA

Posted 25 February 2007 - 07:23 PM

The main difference between the HDV and the DVCPRO HD codec is in post. Generally the DVCPRO HD material can hold up to more extreme color correction with fewer artifacts. With the JVC camera I'd make more of an effort to control the look in camera. But for only minor color correction there's less of a difference.

I've shot with both cameras in various (but not all) lens confugurations, and they're both pretty good, but with slight differences in functionality and image qualities. You pick the right tool(s) for the job.

For a feature with a 35mm lens adapter I'd probably choose the JVC, especially the 250 model which offers color and contrast improvements over earlier models, and 60P recording. The viewfinder (not the flipout) is actually pretty good, too. I'm not too crazy about the shadow detail or punchy reds, but a 35mm lens adapter would smooth some of that out.

For short-form productions with a more stylized look (like music videos) I'd probably continue to choose the HVX for its color and variable frame rates.
  • 0

#6 Walter Graff

Walter Graff
  • Sustaining Members
  • 1334 posts
  • Other
  • New York City

Posted 25 February 2007 - 08:31 PM

"The main difference between the HDV and the DVCPRO HD codec is in post. Generally the DVCPRO HD material can hold up to more extreme color correction with fewer artifacts."


This is true but with plug-ins such as HDVxDV you can capture your HDV footage and make it any resolution and frame size you choose including 1280 DVCPRO HD 720p eliminating the HDV scenario from editing and as a result worries about color are no longer a factor in post production as it would be with native HDV editing. Doing so has given me much greater multiple pass control over HDV originated footage and equals out any on-paper HDV/DVCPro differences.
  • 0


Metropolis Post

Technodolly

FJS International, LLC

Wooden Camera

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Opal

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Abel Cine

Visual Products

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Willys Widgets

Abel Cine

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

Opal

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Technodolly

CineTape

Ritter Battery

Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

CineLab

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Wooden Camera